My thoughts on numerous playthrougs and end-game bonuses

[goku94]

Hi everybody. Hi, doctor Nick.
I was thinking about the idea of giving up and starting over the whole campaign. Well, not many games have something like that, so I value it a lot. I have never finished the currently existing chapters on ****, but I imagine, that after doing so, the second playthrough must get really boring. You know, you already defeated every stinking epic boss, hords of creeps and all that on the highest difficulty level. And you also get a "huge bonus" for when you start over, so it doesn't get any more interesting. It gets easier. There was even talk of eliminating professions, so that you don't have to think about such stuff. But this is a valuable part of the game, very uniqe in games generally. So, after you beat the game on ****, you can put it away for good and maybe wait for some bugfixes or, I don't know, anything. But I have an idea, that could make the game more interesting for those, who beat it on the highest level, or maybe even on extreme. I know it may be difficult to make, or even impossible, but that's the only reasonable bonus for finishing ****.

In every chapter, there could be a bonus area available, for those, who managed to do it. You could enter it via a bonus quest, and through a special portal, magical runes drawn on the ground, with help of a wizard, or simply enter a mine or a cave. This area should be extremaly difficult. You would enter it only after finishing all other non-main quests, with a maximum level and all most powerful items currently available. It should be so difficult, that even with those things you would have problems with survivng. There, as you wouldn't level up anymore, you would find more powerful items, item sets, synthesis items, bonus luck and honor and upgrades for spells, skills and espers - things, that would not change your chosen skills, only expand them with special effects. One or two quests, some bonus story and hard, long minigames would also be included. And most of all, a new, special boss, let's say a Legendary Boss. Those Legendary Bosses would be the most difficult enemies in the game and would drop even more powerful stuff. With this stuff, next chapters would be easier, so that you could focus on the new content - and the old content, except for main plot, would be skipable. These areas would only be playable on **** and extreme.

This way, the second **** playthrough would be a lot more crazy and interesting. I know it sounds crazy, and you probably think "this guy doesn't know, what he's talking about, we don't have time for this". Yeah, I already realised that. It's just an idea. After all, this campaign already beats every other game into a pulp. You said you would welcome every idea.

Well, thank you for attention.
goku94

[Doomlord]

Nice idea you got there pal. I totally approve of this, no matter what Aero might say.

[Shinokyofu]

Okay, first things first.

I don't exactly agree with you about the **** thing. I mean, how many times will you replay the campaign? If you could beat the game in **** doing all the things you could do(100% of the game), you could say "oh well, i've done everything i could do here" then pass to another game. Then, after some time has passed, when you're without that many game choices and with lots of free time, you replay it again. Well, that said, the campaign isn't complete, and I get you point of view. You're not wrong, but perphaps expecting so much of it?

We can only "give up" for now, but later(when the campaign is completed or almost) we will get "The End" to do too. I've heard of Aero some projects of doing bonus things(you could say, new game+ bonuses, if you know the term)for the ones who load a "The End"

Now, about the "Legendary Areas". Personally i thing that would be beyond difficult(perphaps impossible like you've said) to be made, but i like the idea and the concept. I mean, i would get very excited, that's for sure. I love new things that you discovery in a game when you think you already did everything(if the game is good enough, that is...)
Yet, i remember you that TCO isn't exactly a easy campaign. I mean, not all of us are such **** gamers that can beat even the Touhou games or such **** games with ease. Within a normal point of view, to beat later epic bosses in ****  can be .... ****.

"So Shino, are you saying that my idea is bad?" No, the idea is very good. Perphaps not a legendary area, but a alternative mode of the same map, with new monsters and stuff...that wouldn't be bad, indeed...Ahem! But there's a limit of how difficult a boss can be, because if it's too difficult, it's unbeatable, but if it's not difficult enough, the main concept breaks. Besides, your idea looks, like i've said already, difficult to be made, perphaps impossible.

Now just to end this post(it's getting too long, and i'm getting lazy), you should, at least, wait for the end of the campaign. It'll get more difficult. Have you seen the bosses that Aero will put there? They're **** difficult to the point i've given up defeating then now(in the campaign i'll get revenge though). Well, perphaps you're even more of a **** player than i thought and have already defeated them....Well, i can't help then. Too much hardcoreness for me to handle .


PS: Doom, don't you think it is a little too unrealistic? I mean, is it even possible to do this? It would be interesting with it is though [-).

[Pourquoi]

Great idea... except that our dear Aero can't be bothered with it.

[Aeroblyctos]

Hey,

The basic idea is almost same with the Elite and Epic bosses. There's something optional, something very challenging in each chapter. Except that you can go enter these areas when you've done specific things.

I'm actually positive to this but I want to link Game Points to this. Right now Game Points are useless, but they'll be used for Interludes. Why not for this too?

Also I wonder how this idea will actually work. Like, 1 extra optional quest per chapter or what?

[goku94]

Well, you're right. Maybe Epic bosses in later chapters are unbeatable on ****. This way, the bonus could help in defeating them. One bonus quest per chapter would be perfectly awesome, as long as it would contain bonus story and would be a little more complicated then usual. You know, for example you would have to search for special items all over the chapter and then solve a puzzle using them. And the special rewards would help with epic bosses - perfect! I know it would take a lot of time for you to create, but, you know, you've been working on this project for years, you know you love it.

Now, I'm quiting gaming until june, so bye. I hope the basic campaign will be finisjed by then. Good luck.

[Doomlord]

PS: Doom, don't you think it is a little too unrealistic? I mean, is it even possible to do this? It would be interesting with it is though [-).

Nah the concept for these legendary arenas are simple enough. We create the arena then block the entrance with an invulnerable gate that can only be opened if the player have achieved the necessary criteria like accumulating a specific quantity of Game Points or playing on Hardore, etc.

[Shinokyofu]

PS: Doom, don't you think it is a little too unrealistic? I mean, is it even possible to do this? It would be interesting with it is though [-).

Nah the concept for these legendary arenas are simple enough. We create the arena then block the entrance with an invulnerable gate that can only be opened if the player have achieved the necessary criteria like accumulating a specific quantity of Game Points or playing on Hardore, etc.

When you put that way it looks simple...I don't know. It sounded a lot more complicated when i read it...or so i've imagined.

[Aeroblyctos]

The plan to what to create there takes like 10x more time than actually doing the thing.

[hamza_tm]

Firstly the main point is that the game does not get THAT boring after you finish ****. Why? Because when you start again you can choose a completely different skill set for your heroes. In this way there are just tons of skill combinations to explore per playthrough which adds a massive amount of replay value.

There are also alternative item builds to try. Caster Fradz stacking greater magic balls, can you win with that? It's pretty damn hard I can tell you

Anyway the **** bosses aren't exactly easy, they all take very specific strategies to beat and only that strategy can work. So when you say Legendary boss that is harder than the others, that doesn't make sense until you clarify how to make them harder. The strategy can always be learnt, do you want a boringly long fight or one that requires ridiculous timing of things to win? Or perhaps bosses that require controlling your heroes separately at the same time?

Anyway nice idea, if you can help thinking up more ideas for what kinda stuff to create that would be awesome!

[Shinokyofu]

Anyway the **** bosses aren't exactly easy, they all take very specific strategies to beat and only that strategy can work. So when you say Legendary boss that is harder than the others, that doesn't make sense until you clarify how to make them harder. The strategy can always be learnt, do you want a boringly long fight or one that requires ridiculous timing of things to win? Or perhaps bosses that require controlling your heroes separately at the same time?

Until i find a way to play with my feet and my hands(at the same time that is) or until i get a third hand and a third eye it would be really great if you NEVER mentioned something like that again...



Er...but overall i agree with you

[liauyuancheng]

This is an interesting idea! I had a similar idea previously - why not introduce a third difficult but optional boss, Legendary boss, in every level? It will be more difficult than Elite and Epic bosses obviously. There could be a side quest one has to do to find it. But I dont like limiting it to **** only or by Game Points. And I dont like the idea of new areas to fight creeps so as to reach this boss....

[Shinokyofu]

This is an interesting idea! I had a similar idea previously - why not introduce a third difficult but optional boss, Legendary boss, in every level? It will be more difficult than Elite and Epic bosses obviously. There could be a side quest one has to do to find it. But I dont like limiting it to **** only or by Game Points. And I dont like the idea of new areas to fight creeps so as to reach this boss....

If you can't even play on **** this boss would be pretty much useless since you wouldn't defeat it any time soon. If you only add the boss, it won't be any different than the elite or epic bosses, and btw they're already optional, you don't have to fight them...in fact, the game would turn pretty easily if you choose to don't fight them. The Legendary Area idea is to make difficult even to reach the boss, it can be seen as a "warning" too, since the boss would be very hard.

So your idea...nah, i don't like it, it's no different than only have a elite boss and then "Hey, only one extra boss is lame, let's put another one" and then put a epic boss, but..."Just two extra bosses? Laaaame! Let's put another one!!"... Come on, the legendary area could at least change it a little.

[Blackdoom59]

Clearing out the game on **** is the ultimate challange this game has to offer.I honestly never finnished a playthrough on **** (ch 6 owned me) but even if you finnish it, that dosen't mean the fun is over.

I see your point , on the second , if not third playthrough you will get all the achievable items and you will be a god.Even on **** it will become possible to finnish the epic boss within 30 seconds just because you have all those legendary items on you.

Building a cave full of overpowered mobs and bosses for each chapterwill be a real burden to make and even if aero does it , he won't do it along with the interludes , trust me.And once again if you suggest you can enter that cave only on a give up playthrough you will have all those godly items on you.Fradz will be unkillable unless one shotted since he will heal up more then his maximum life on each attack.Same goes for Phodom who regenerates his 1k health per second and Galeoth will probably hide then one shot everyone with his nukes.

Then you get to the big boss and expect him to last longer then a minute
NOPE
Chuck Testa.

[Aeroblyctos]

I won't create "third" superior boss. The story is pretty much "full" already.

Some extra places, perhaps, perhaps.

But I don't know. My mind is currently pretty full of other things. Hmm.