The Chosen Ones

Miscellaneous Stuff => Walkthroughs & Strategies => Topic started by: megmaconqueror on October 20, 2010, 03:58:49 am


Title: Strategie Debate: Spell builds
Post by: megmaconqueror on October 20, 2010, 03:58:49 am
Alright, well, HellHeaven will know what this is for :P

For everyone else, here's an update.

Me and HH are debating on which is better suited for Phodom. Fire Mastery (me) or Aura of Fire (HH).

My arguements are (shorted)

HH's arguments (shortend also)

So anyway, there's our standings, what's your thoughts? Got anything to add to either side?

Note: There's more to be added to HH's arguments, but i have to go to bed now, its late.
Title: Re: Strategie Debate: Spell builds
Post by: [H]ell[H]eaven on October 20, 2010, 04:03:19 am
Nice 1 man but u should edit my strategy more.
It doesn't look **** like that  :'(
Title: Re: Strategie Debate: Spell builds
Post by: megmaconqueror on October 20, 2010, 04:23:19 am
I don't have time tonight, if you give me all the arguments you want there, I'll edit it when I get the chance, send them to me in a PM or in a post, doesn't matter either way to me.

Also, those are technically your words. You said that in later chapter you won't be using Phodom's spells much, which in-directly says that Fire mastery becomes unless in the later chapters. We both know you said those same words for #2, as for #3, I wasn't sure what to say, so I just did the math, and added the statement "With silver set and red orb set, he would kill any normal monster without physical attacks or spell".
Title: Re: Strategie Debate: Spell builds
Post by: EndlessPain on October 20, 2010, 08:23:28 am
I agree with HH about aura of fire is better, my reason are:
-Phodom is becoming a tank on long term in thecampaing, and aura of fire will do a nice synergy with its role.
-For me at least, aura of fire dps can outlaw the extra dps of firemastery can do since aura of fire dps can be tigered much more frequently when fighting multiple enemies or a high attack speed monster.
-Phodom don't depend to much on his spells to fight, making aura of fire that reduce damage and make damage just by recieving damage more usefull.
-Finally don't need a extra heal of firemastery if he can reduce the damage he takes with aura of fire.

Well this is my point of view: aura of fire ftw  ;D.
Title: Re: Strategie Debate: Spell builds
Post by: Aeroblyctos on October 20, 2010, 08:44:09 am
This reply is only an answer to the first post.

Quote
Fire Mastery will improve Shield of Fire's healing a lot
Actually Fire Mastery increases all magic type abilities damage, but there are some exception. Also Fire Mastery will increase Spell Book Spells damages.

Quote
Shield of fire will heal more than any of the other healing spells, including Fradz's
Spell book spells heals even more.

Quote
# Fradz's healing spell would only heal (speculation on stats) 688 hp and 440 mana, at lvl 20 and no lightning mastery

HEAL ABILITIES

Hydro Shield: (abilvlx10)+(intx0,5)
   => Lvl 1 & 50 INT: (1x10)+(50x0,5) = 35
   => Lvl 10 & 250 INT: (10x10)+(250x0,5) = 250
Blessing of Lightning:
- Stats (abilvlx5)+(agix0,1)
- Hp: (abilvlx100)+(strx4)
   => Lvl 1 & 50 STR: (1x100)+(50x4) = 300
   => Lvl 10 & 250 STR: (10x100)+(250x4) = 2000
   => Lvl 20 & 500 STR: (20x100)+(500x4) = 4000
- Mana: (abilvlx50)+(intx2)
   => Lvl 1 & 50 INT: (1x50)+(50x2) = 150
   => Lvl 10 & 250 INT: (10x50)+(250x2) = 750
   => Lvl 20 & 500 INT: (20x50)+(500x2) = 2000
Speedy Boost:
- Agility: (abilvlx10)+(agix0,2)
   => Lvl 1 & 50 AGI: (1x10)+(50x0,2) = 20
   => Lvl 10 & 250 AGI: (10x10)+(250x0,2) = 150
   => Lvl 20 & 500 AGI: (20x10)+(500x0,2) = 300
- Hit Point Regeneration: (abilvlx8)+(strx0,2)
   => Lvl 1 & 50 STR: (1x8)+(50x0,2) = 18 / SEC (270)
   => Lvl 10 & 250 STR: (10x8)+(250x0,2) = 130 (1950)
   => Lvl 20 & 500 STR: (20x8)+(500x0,2) = 260 (3900)
- Mana Regeneration: (abilvlx4)+(intx0,1)
   => Lvl 1 & 50 INT: (1x4)+(50x0,1) = 9 / SEC (135)
   => Lvl 10 & 250 INT: (10x4)+(250x0,1) = 65 (975)
   => Lvl 20 & 500 INT: (20x4)+(500x0,1) = 130 (1950)
Attack Speed: - 25%
Movement Speed: - Max mov spd

Quote
# In later chapters you won't be using Phodom's spells that much thus rendering Fire Mastery useless
Depends how you play the game.
Title: Re: Strategie Debate: Spell builds
Post by: MofoBear on October 20, 2010, 11:19:42 am
I wish this answer was simple but it isn't.
First i ll make a little intro. Truth is Heaven's Bless is better than Shield of Fire, for a simple reason: Heal is INSTANT. In a difficult situation like a boss fight this difference between these 2 heal spells is major.
So, i prefer Heaven's Bless for the reason that i mentioned above, the second ability of the skill(resurrection) sounds useful, but so far i have never needed it.
Now lets stick to the point: I prefer Fire Mastery to Aura of Fire because
This question is a subjective one, it depends on which each campaign player's needs are. You want a hybrid tank/dps/healer? Get Aura of Fire. You want a hybrid tank/spellcaster/improved healer? Get Fire Mastery.
Title: Re: Strategie Debate: Spell builds
Post by: Aeroblyctos on October 20, 2010, 12:18:19 pm
I have been thinking. It sounds sexier to my ears to have a heal per second skill with a resurrection bonus than instant heal with instant heal. I guess I could make things like this:

- Heaven's Bless would be like Shied Of Fire without that armor bonus.
- Shield Of Fire to be an instant heal and gives something for next 10 seconds.
Title: Re: Strategie Debate: Spell builds
Post by: MofoBear on October 20, 2010, 01:07:05 pm
I have been thinking. It sounds sexier to my ears to have a heal per second skill with a resurrection bonus than instant heal with instant heal. I guess I could make things like this:

- Heaven's Bless would be like Shied Of Fire without that armor bonus.
- Shield Of Fire to be an instant heal and gives something for next 10 seconds.

Modify Shield of Fire to give insta-heal and % melee return damage buff as long it is active. That would be cheesy... huhuhu...
Title: Re: Strategie Debate: Spell builds
Post by: EndlessPain on October 20, 2010, 01:47:37 pm
I have been thinking. It sounds sexier to my ears to have a heal per second skill with a resurrection bonus than instant heal with instant heal. I guess I could make things like this:

- Heaven's Bless would be like Shied Of Fire without that armor bonus.
- Shield Of Fire to be an instant heal and gives something for next 10 seconds.
Please don't change shield of fire it is perfect right now: btw i like more healing overtime, cause if i want a insta heal i would just drink a potion, but the good things about shield of fire is that u can use it when u reseave a bit of damage and don't see ur hp fall a lot for 10 sec   :o and also be more tank within that time cause of teh  armour , please don't change it :(
Title: Re: Strategie Debate: Spell builds
Post by: megmaconqueror on October 20, 2010, 08:03:35 pm
@Endless Pain
1) The dps gained from Fire Mastery allows (insert spell here) to surpass aura of fire's dps
2) Reduced damage is weaker than the HPS

@Aero
1) Yeah, the exceptions are those that do not use magic bonus.
2) I haven't really used spell book spells that much in alpha truthfully. ^^;
3) Hydro never says that it has a heal.
3b) I'm sorry, I totally missed speedy boost's regen.

@MofobBeat
1) Instant heal means just that, instant heal. Every ==> 12 <===, seconds you can heal. Shield of fire, heals over time, meaning it can act like damage reduction but still heals more than heaven's bless. And that "major" difference is in favor of shield of fire, because of the fact that the heal is greater than heaven's bless. But like I've said before, if you can't survive, the resurrection is better.
2) If you don't need resurrection, and if the heal is lower and slower, why use it? You get armor bonus and a bigger heal overall.
3) A non-subjective debate wouldn't be a debate now would it?

@Aero again
1) okay, say you do make Heaven's Bless with a HoT (heal over time), would its calculations be changed? Such as, the HPS will equal shield of fire's with Phodom at level 10?
2) Phodom already has a 1% magbonus%, so how is it put into the calculations? 101%x((abilvlx100) + (intx3) + magbonus))/5 or 1%x((abilvlx100) + (intx3) + magbonus))/5?
Title: Re: Strategie Debate: Spell builds
Post by: LucasMapurunga on October 20, 2010, 08:39:19 pm
Sincerely, Fire Mastery seems like a lot better then Aura of Fire.

I never used them, so i'm talking about what I read here:

1- Fire Mastery really improve your skills. Even if you are in a late game, a little more damage from Phoenix Combo or Meltdown or even a spell book spell can make diference.

2- No problems for normal mobs ? Common, you have to worry more with bosses here. You can have a certain damage reduction in later levels, but Fire Mastery effect is better. IMO.

3- Heal over time is pretty nice, although making Shield of Fire insta-heal would make it a LOT better, since we can see the real cure. Moreover, if getting Fire Mastery makes it better, i'm with Fire Mastery.

4- I trully don't like Heaven's Bless at all. I think it's a little bit OPed.  :P
Title: Re: Strategie Debate: Spell builds
Post by: MofoBear on October 21, 2010, 02:43:24 am
@MofobBeat
1) Instant heal means just that, instant heal. Every ==> 12 <===, seconds you can heal. Shield of fire, heals over time, meaning it can act like damage reduction but still heals more than heaven's bless. And that "major" difference is in favor of shield of fire, because of the fact that the heal is greater than heaven's bless. But like I've said before, if you can't survive, the resurrection is better.
2) If you don't need resurrection, and if the heal is lower and slower, why use it? You get armor bonus and a bigger heal overall.


Well, have you ever thought that incoming damage from an epic boss is bigger than the heal-over-time that Shield of Fire gives you? Or sometimes the boss casts a super spell and if you didn't bulk up you just die, armor won't matter there. In my playstyle when it comes to terms with heal i prefer the instant one, i don't care if the total heal is greater.
Title: Re: Strategie Debate: Spell builds
Post by: Aeroblyctos on October 21, 2010, 03:09:00 am
- The idea behind my idea is that I quite don't like the combination of instant heal and resurrection(original idea was to have a healing spell with low cooldown and instant heal, resurrection idea came later...).
- I could let Shield Of Fire stay and edit the Heaven's Bless to be like heal per second and that resurrection buff.
- Then I could make third ability something like instant heal and something.
- Actually that 1% is a bug I can't fix.  ;D
Title: Re: Strategie Debate: Spell builds
Post by: [H]ell[H]eaven on October 21, 2010, 03:36:42 am
wall of text, look really confusing  :o
I was thinking of Boss's special spell but MofoBear mentioned abt that already so i just give an example:
Your Phodom has 200/1000 hp when fighting an epic boss
+ u use Shield of Fire which give regen 100hp/sec over 8 sec so u will hav full hp after 8s. But after 2 s, epic boss uses super spell make u lose over 500 hp, and u die, game over if don't have any live
+But if u use Heaven's Bless u can heal instantly 500hp which is smaller amount than heal 800 hp of Shield of fire( 8 sec) but u can avoid dying( it's an example, i don't know how many sec u get regen as well as the exact value u can heal, so example, every1 can understand)

Or sometimes the boss casts a super spell and if you didn't bulk up you just die, armor won't matter there
armor can reduce dam from spells as well, in the other hand, it does increase magic resistance.

We can see that Fire Mastery outmatched Aura of Fire in every aspects when it comes to boss fight, i agree but do u ever think abt enjoy campaign in some others way?
I like killing the mob without use any spell or attack, just make Phodom run around and thing is done  :D( and of course, mobs never never can be a problem with me)

An other point, having resurrect is really good.Think abt u fight epic boss for 20 mins already in later chapter, look like everything is in your hand but suddenly the boss uses really nasty spell and kill off 2 members and the last 1 just die in matter of second, how u feel? Like Loading game? Nah, i don't think so. U can buy lives but buy combat king is way more satisfied me than lives. I never buy live at all, or maybe just 1 live in 1 boss fight is enough.

@megma: u wrote down too much, lol  :P. Maybe we should discuss later though private message. I really don't like read a wall of text and reply with an other wall of text  :(
Title: Re: Strategie Debate: Spell builds
Post by: MofoBear on October 21, 2010, 06:25:51 am
armor can reduce dam from spells as well, in the other hand, it does increase magic resistance.

Who told you that? Spell damage has two types: As far as i know, all spells/skills in TCO Campaign deal magical damage, thus remain unaffected by armor value. I said armor value, not armor type.
Title: Re: Strategie Debate: Spell builds
Post by: [H]ell[H]eaven on October 21, 2010, 06:57:09 am
armor can reduce dam from spells as well, in the other hand, it does increase magic resistance.

Who told you that? Spell damage has two types:
  • Physical Damage, reduced by armor
  • Magical Damage, reduced by magic resistance
As far as i know, all spells/skills in TCO Campaign deal magical damage, thus remain unaffected by armor value. I said armor value, not armor type.

I know u said abt Armor value
That was my bad, sr.
Title: Re: Strategie Debate: Spell builds
Post by: megmaconqueror on October 21, 2010, 10:36:23 am
@Mofo
1) From Chapter 1 alone, my Heal over Time was greater than the epic boss's dps. Hps was about, 108, epic boss's dps was about 70-100. And the "bulk up" comes from the str and hp that you get from Avatar.

@HH
1) Shield of Fire lasts 10 seconds. And of course there's a wall of text. This is a debate, and I invited everyone that had at least 1 post on their account. There is 5 different opinions going on right now. I replied to the person's argument. Like I'm doing here.

Now this explanation hits both Mofo and HH.
1) If Phodom is that low, after casting the shield, continuing to attack just invites that death.
2) Cast shield, and circle the boss. You keep arggo, and your dps can still attack.
3) However, if the boss uses an instant AoE then yeah, you're kinda screwed.
4) But now, if you got a good HoT, why the hell are you at 200 life? That means you're not using it right. You should never be that low. When fighting the epic boss in chapter one, I never got that low, at least not without vitality's help.
5) Also, using avatar will greatly delay your death, and gives you enough time to regenerate a good about of life.
6) Besides, what kind of tanker only has 1000 life?
(By the way HH, found why I kept dying to the epic boss, lol, he kept taking away my vitality)


@Aero
1) Shield of fire remake here (http://tcocampaign.createaforum.com/index.php?topic=36.0) :P
2) Hmm... alright. So then, if you don't like it, change it. I mean, you've already said what sounds good to you. So you can do that. :)
Title: Re: Strategie Debate: Spell builds
Post by: MofoBear on October 21, 2010, 10:45:50 am
@Mofo
1) From Chapter 1 alone, my Heal over Time was greater than the epic boss's dps. Hps was about, 108, epic boss's dps was about 70-100. And the "bulk up" comes from the str and hp that you get from Avatar.

Now this explanation hits both Mofo and HH.
1) If Phodom is that low, after casting the shield, continuing to attack just invites that death.
2) Cast shield, and circle the boss. You keep arggo, and your dps can still attack.
3) However, if the boss uses an instant AoE then yeah, you're kinda screwed.
4) But now, if you got a good HoT, why the hell are you at 200 life? That means you're not using it right. You should never be that low. When fighting the epic boss in chapter one, I never got that low, at least not without vitality's help.
5) Also, using avatar will greatly delay your death, and gives you enough time to regenerate a good about of life.
6) Besides, what kind of tanker only has 1000 life?
(By the way HH, found why I kept dying to the epic boss, lol, he kept taking away my vitality)

Who said i m using Avatar? Well i don't, i usually get aoe attack.
1)Yes, that's what i m talking about.
2)I cast Heaven's Bless and circle the boss, it's the same thing. After 12 secs i cast 2nd heal and attack, that's a no-brainer.
3)That's where Heaven's Bless excels.
4)You have 200 hp because you got silenced/stuned and you don't use healing pots. At least that's why i manage to hit 200 hp.
5)I don't use avatar, but i think i might just start using it from now on.
6)The low lvl tanker that doesn't use avatar.
Title: Re: Strategie Debate: Spell builds
Post by: megmaconqueror on October 21, 2010, 07:37:32 pm
@Mofobeat
1) Who said that you are using it?
2) You said
Quote
if you didn't bulk up you just die
2a) I answered with
Quote
Also, using avatar will greatly delay your death, and gives you enough time to regenerate a good about of life.
3) Only Silence would would make you have 200 hp, and that's if it is like, 15 seconds or more, well maybe 10 seconds depending on timing.
4) With epic bosses, you should always know what to expect. If there's a stun, and you know about the hp % that he uses a spell, then you can time shield of fire right, and that stun wouldn't mean crap.
5) That 500 hp you lost, would be gone in 5 secs, leaving a 500 hp cushion for the physical attacks that the boss is going to do.
5) Haha, yeah, I was the same way when it first came in. I stuck with AoE dmg, since Phodom is tanker, he doesn't need that AoE.
6) At level 10, Phodom HAS 1125 health, he has a base hp of 175, and str of 38, its 25 hp per str. Add in about 20-30 str from items, that's another 750 (30 str) making it 1875 hp.
6a) So unless you have some item or ability that reduced str, or are not level 7/8 yet, only 1000 hp is impossible. By level 7/8 (7.22) you will have 1000 hp, with out any items, hp buffs, or spells. And I doubt anyone is going to fight the epic boss while not being maxed lvl for the chapter.
Title: Re: Strategie Debate: Spell builds
Post by: MofoBear on October 22, 2010, 05:12:35 am
@Mofobeat
1) Who said that you are using it?
2) You said
Quote
if you didn't bulk up you just die
2a) I answered with
Quote
Also, using avatar will greatly delay your death, and gives you enough time to regenerate a good about of life.
3) Only Silence would would make you have 200 hp, and that's if it is like, 15 seconds or more, well maybe 10 seconds depending on timing.
4) With epic bosses, you should always know what to expect. If there's a stun, and you know about the hp % that he uses a spell, then you can time shield of fire right, and that stun wouldn't mean crap.
5) That 500 hp you lost, would be gone in 5 secs, leaving a 500 hp cushion for the physical attacks that the boss is going to do.
5) Haha, yeah, I was the same way when it first came in. I stuck with AoE dmg, since Phodom is tanker, he doesn't need that AoE.
6) At level 10, Phodom HAS 1125 health, he has a base hp of 175, and str of 38, its 25 hp per str. Add in about 20-30 str from items, that's another 750 (30 str) making it 1875 hp.
6a) So unless you have some item or ability that reduced str, or are not level 7/8 yet, only 1000 hp is impossible. By level 7/8 (7.22) you will have 1000 hp, with out any items, hp buffs, or spells. And I doubt anyone is going to fight the epic boss while not being maxed lvl for the chapter.

I think we are starting to get off-topic. Plus, i got a little confused with your answers.
You start assuming things to support your arguments. Not everyone uses the same skill setup as you do. Not everyone uses the same items setup as you do. So how can you make calculations, when you don't know each one's setup? 200hp with 15 secs silence, 500hp+500hp, where did you come up with that? Hello? Why do you use numbers in your answers since the number you refer to is totally irrelevant?

Me:   if you didn't bulk up you just die
You:  Also, using avatar will greatly delay your death, and gives you enough time to regenerate a good about of life.
        Haha, yeah, I was the same way when it first came in. I stuck with AoE dmg, since Phodom is tanker, he doesn't need that AoE.

Ok man you are a pro, you have Avatar to bulk up. So, what you are really trying to say here is to load the campaign from the start and get Avatar, because aoe is crap and Phodom doesn't need it. You don't sound very convincing, do you? After all, tell Aero that all hero skills he made are crap, except the ones that you use.


Me: 5)I don't use avatar, but i think i might just start using it from now on
You:5) That 500 hp you lost, would be gone in 5 secs, leaving a 500 hp cushion for the physical attacks that the boss is going to do.
       
Could you be more specific please? It's all greek to me.


At level 10, Phodom has 1050 hp, not 1125.
Base hp 175? Jesus, where did you come up with that? Or that (7.22), what it is? Or that 1000hp you mentioned, stop arguing about that, you are the one who came up with that number in the first place, do i have to remind you that? 6) Besides, what kind of tanker only has 1000 life? I didn't say i have 1000 hp when i go fight a boss, so stop quoting around that. I just gave you an answer to your question.

Lvl 10 Phodom, no items on, with lvl 2 Heaven's Bless and lvl 2 Fire Mastery = more than 900hp Insta-Heal, and that's a fact, do you want me to send the save so you can see for yourself? Can you (Mofo)beat that with Fire Shield? I guess you can't.

p.s. It's MofoBeaR, not MofoBeaT.
Title: Re: Strategie Debate: Spell builds
Post by: megmaconqueror on October 23, 2010, 12:19:52 am
I think we are starting to get off-topic. Plus, i got a little confused with your answers.
You start assuming things to support your arguments. Not everyone uses the same skill setup as you do. Not everyone uses the same items setup as you do. So how can you make calculations, when you don't know each one's setup? 200hp with 15 secs silence, 500hp+500hp, where did you come up with that? Hello? Why do you use numbers in your answers since the number you refer to is totally irrelevant?

Me:   if you didn't bulk up you just die
You:  Also, using avatar will greatly delay your death, and gives you enough time to regenerate a good about of life.
        Haha, yeah, I was the same way when it first came in. I stuck with AoE dmg, since Phodom is tanker, he doesn't need that AoE.

Ok man you are a pro, you have Avatar to bulk up. So, what you are really trying to say here is to load the campaign from the start and get Avatar, because aoe is crap and Phodom doesn't need it. You don't sound very convincing, do you? After all, tell Aero that all hero skills he made are crap, except the ones that you use.


Me: 5)I don't use avatar, but i think i might just start using it from now on
You:5) That 500 hp you lost, would be gone in 5 secs, leaving a 500 hp cushion for the physical attacks that the boss is going to do.
       
Could you be more specific please? It's all greek to me.


At level 10, Phodom has 1050 hp, not 1125.
Base hp 175? Jesus, where did you come up with that? Or that (7.22), what it is? Or that 1000hp you mentioned, stop arguing about that, you are the one who came up with that number in the first place, do i have to remind you that? 6) Besides, what kind of tanker only has 1000 life? I didn't say i have 1000 hp when i go fight a boss, so stop quoting around that. I just gave you an answer to your question.

Lvl 10 Phodom, no items on, with lvl 2 Heaven's Bless and lvl 2 Fire Mastery = more than 900hp Insta-Heal, and that's a fact, do you want me to send the save so you can see for yourself? Can you (Mofo)beat that with Fire Shield? I guess you can't.

p.s. It's MofoBeaR, not MofoBeaT.
This is a debate on spell builds. So technically can't get off topic.

I don't assume everyone uses the same skills or items I do. I never said that that. Look, Phodom starts out with 20 str, and if you scroll over the main attribute icon, it tells you what you get either each point in each stat. 1 str = 25 health. 20 * 25 is 500. 675 - 500 is 175, that's is his base health. At level 10, WITH OUT ANY ITEMS OR POTIONS, phodom has 38 str, that's 18 more str, that's 450 health 450 + 500 is 950, add the base hp of 175, it comes out to 1125 health. I am NOT basing my calculations on items or abilities. I clearly stat, WITH OUT ITEMS OR ABILITIES, it comes out to X. If I do include an ability or item, I STATE THAT I AM USING THAT. Read better.

No, I'm not saying start over or that I'm a pro, I suck actually. I'm just stating the mathematical side, which points to other sides. You said that Phodom had to bulk up, or he'd die. I stated that WITH avatar, Phodom bulks up, and doesn't die. As for AoE, yeah its great, get it, get avatar, I don't care what you do or how you play. To me, Phodom doesn't need AoE attack, so who cares what I say? You clearly don't, hell, I don't even care about it because I know it means nothing to others that like AoE attack. All the abilities Aero made are good, for their own situation, just like every other freaking spell anyone has made. I'm stating which ones have the most likely, and more common situations to be the spell that excels at.

Quote
5) That 500 hp you lost, would be gone in 5 secs, leaving a 500 hp cushion for the physical attacks that the boss is going to do.
5) Haha, yeah, I was the same way when it first came in. I stuck with AoE dmg, since Phodom is tanker, he doesn't need that AoE.

Ums, I'm not sure exactly, I think that the first 5) was something I forgot to delete (rethink, reword, change statements) XD and I do apologize for that.

Its simple, start the campaign, before leveling up, look at Phodom's stats, and the gain for each stat. Str is 20, hp for each str is 25. Now since I knew the str at lvl 10 is 38, I took (38 - 20)/10 which comes to 1.8 str per level. Going on that, the base health, and the str at level 1, I calculated how many levels Phodom needed to get 1000 health. You said low level tanker, I was giving you the lowest level possible for Phodom to have 1000 health without items, spell buffs, or any other stat modifier.

Heaven's Bless: Heal, (magbonus%+100%)x((abilvlx100)+(intx3)+magbonus)

magbonus% = 0
abilvl = 2
int = 24
magbonus = 272

100%x(200 + 72 + 272)
100%x(544)
100% = 1
1x544 = 544

So unless you have more stats then what Phodom has as a BASE, then yeah, its going to be bigger. Well, base and Fire Mastery.

And sorry, typo. I mean T is next R. Easy to hit it by mistake.
Title: Re: Strategie Debate: Spell builds
Post by: MofoBear on October 23, 2010, 06:34:11 am
I think we are starting to get off-topic. Plus, i got a little confused with your answers.
You start assuming things to support your arguments. Not everyone uses the same skill setup as you do. Not everyone uses the same items setup as you do. So how can you make calculations, when you don't know each one's setup? 200hp with 15 secs silence, 500hp+500hp, where did you come up with that? Hello? Why do you use numbers in your answers since the number you refer to is totally irrelevant?

Me:   if you didn't bulk up you just die
You:  Also, using avatar will greatly delay your death, and gives you enough time to regenerate a good about of life.
        Haha, yeah, I was the same way when it first came in. I stuck with AoE dmg, since Phodom is tanker, he doesn't need that AoE.

Ok man you are a pro, you have Avatar to bulk up. So, what you are really trying to say here is to load the campaign from the start and get Avatar, because aoe is crap and Phodom doesn't need it. You don't sound very convincing, do you? After all, tell Aero that all hero skills he made are crap, except the ones that you use.


Me: 5)I don't use avatar, but i think i might just start using it from now on
You:5) That 500 hp you lost, would be gone in 5 secs, leaving a 500 hp cushion for the physical attacks that the boss is going to do.
       
Could you be more specific please? It's all greek to me.


At level 10, Phodom has 1050 hp, not 1125.
Base hp 175? Jesus, where did you come up with that? Or that (7.22), what it is? Or that 1000hp you mentioned, stop arguing about that, you are the one who came up with that number in the first place, do i have to remind you that? 6) Besides, what kind of tanker only has 1000 life? I didn't say i have 1000 hp when i go fight a boss, so stop quoting around that. I just gave you an answer to your question.

Lvl 10 Phodom, no items on, with lvl 2 Heaven's Bless and lvl 2 Fire Mastery = more than 900hp Insta-Heal, and that's a fact, do you want me to send the save so you can see for yourself? Can you (Mofo)beat that with Fire Shield? I guess you can't.

p.s. It's MofoBeaR, not MofoBeaT.
This is a debate on spell builds. So technically can't get off topic.

I don't assume everyone uses the same skills or items I do. I never said that that. Look, Phodom starts out with 20 str, and if you scroll over the main attribute icon, it tells you what you get either each point in each stat. 1 str = 25 health. 20 * 25 is 500. 675 - 500 is 175, that's is his base health. At level 10, WITH OUT ANY ITEMS OR POTIONS, phodom has 38 str, that's 18 more str, that's 450 health 450 + 500 is 950, add the base hp of 175, it comes out to 1125 health. I am NOT basing my calculations on items or abilities. I clearly stat, WITH OUT ITEMS OR ABILITIES, it comes out to X. If I do include an ability or item, I STATE THAT I AM USING THAT. Read better.

No, I'm not saying start over or that I'm a pro, I suck actually. I'm just stating the mathematical side, which points to other sides. You said that Phodom had to bulk up, or he'd die. I stated that WITH avatar, Phodom bulks up, and doesn't die. As for AoE, yeah its great, get it, get avatar, I don't care what you do or how you play. To me, Phodom doesn't need AoE attack, so who cares what I say? You clearly don't, hell, I don't even care about it because I know it means nothing to others that like AoE attack. All the abilities Aero made are good, for their own situation, just like every other freaking spell anyone has made. I'm stating which ones have the most likely, and more common situations to be the spell that excels at.

Quote
5) That 500 hp you lost, would be gone in 5 secs, leaving a 500 hp cushion for the physical attacks that the boss is going to do.
5) Haha, yeah, I was the same way when it first came in. I stuck with AoE dmg, since Phodom is tanker, he doesn't need that AoE.

Ums, I'm not sure exactly, I think that the first 5) was something I forgot to delete (rethink, reword, change statements) XD and I do apologize for that.

Its simple, start the campaign, before leveling up, look at Phodom's stats, and the gain for each stat. Str is 20, hp for each str is 25. Now since I knew the str at lvl 10 is 38, I took (38 - 20)/10 which comes to 1.8 str per level. Going on that, the base health, and the str at level 1, I calculated how many levels Phodom needed to get 1000 health. You said low level tanker, I was giving you the lowest level possible for Phodom to have 1000 health without items, spell buffs, or any other stat modifier.

Heaven's Bless: Heal, (magbonus%+100%)x((abilvlx100)+(intx3)+magbonus)

magbonus% = 0
abilvl = 2
int = 24
magbonus = 272

100%x(200 + 72 + 272)
100%x(544)
100% = 1
1x544 = 544

So unless you have more stats then what Phodom has as a BASE, then yeah, its going to be bigger. Well, base and Fire Mastery.

And sorry, typo. I mean T is next R. Easy to hit it by mistake.

Wrong wrong wrong. It's all wrong.

(http://www.mediafire.com/imgbnc.php/ce0571af5613e2bb8248703545ca775776df9bd8cb07d19e6ff84480edbed5046g.jpg)
(http://www.mediafire.com/imgbnc.php/fab49c02936c39fc9ccc11d8754116d5d318a1a1af71b6cb4d063c8833be78546g.jpg)
(http://www.mediafire.com/imgbnc.php/a2f2a34060fab4ecc24a636a162fa52235a625f51a9ee1ae2e1361fb02e455016g.jpg)
(http://www.mediafire.com/imgbnc.php/8195de4b265891b5637977b3016876896753343b9a5126e09cd3734b59039adc6g.jpg)

Now the facts:
1)Phodom starts with 600 hp, and gains 2 Str per level.
2)Phodom starts with 45 spell dmg, and gains 3 spell dmg per level.
3)Phodom at lvl 10 has 1050 hp, not 1125.
4)Phodom at lvl 10 with lvl 2 Heaven's Bless and lvl 2 Fire Mastery has 944 insta-heal. Now do the math again and find where your error was.

Edit: OMG. You continue arguing about that 1000hp. NOBODY SAID ANYTHING ABOUT 1000HP BUT YOU. GET OVER IT. PLZ.
Title: Re: Strategie Debate: Spell builds
Post by: megmaconqueror on October 24, 2010, 01:18:51 am
(http://www.mediafire.com/imgbnc.php/39f5704ac9ade7af3be682d10792705aebec89fa517059656076e9556db766fa5g.jpg)
So yeah... i don't know whats up O.o My starting hp is 675 and I get 1150 at level 10.
Title: Re: Strategie Debate: Spell builds
Post by: Aeroblyctos on October 24, 2010, 11:34:40 am
STR charm? I removed it however...
Title: Re: Strategie Debate: Spell builds
Post by: megmaconqueror on October 24, 2010, 02:57:27 pm
Nope, nothing. Well, what ever, my comp has been messing with warcraft III for a few months now. Man I hate windows 7. So maybe its just a bug caused by my system?

Okay weird, I just started a new one, and I had 600 hp. Haha, I have no idea what the hell is going on. >.<
Title: Re: Strategie Debate: Spell builds
Post by: megmaconqueror on October 28, 2010, 11:13:56 pm
Alright, this Debate is dead, so I'm going to request that it gets closed. A new thread about spell builds will be created, and will be more focused on the spell builds you choose, more information will be in the thread.
Title: Re: Strategie Debate: Spell builds
Post by: Aeroblyctos on October 29, 2010, 04:25:20 am
Okay, then this is closed.