The Chosen Ones

General Information => Site Discussion => Topic started by: TrueZozi on June 06, 2013, 02:32:15 pm


Title: In need of total unification
Post by: TrueZozi on June 06, 2013, 02:32:15 pm
I read the latest news of a site and think that this project is in need of unification. Unification of people who supported the project for the whole period from the start till now. Sad about Aero's motivation gap. Sad about Doomlord's decision. About the people's inactivity - so much downloads, so much comments in hive - and no support in this "dark" times (I don't mean a donation only, some valuable ideas are needed too I suppose).
My view is that this project is not ready to fully change in a cost-efficient way as Aero wants - for so much time it was a free and only the motivation was moving it forward. It is going to become donate-able only gradually, and some time is needed for sure. The idea about free main plot and payable optionals is great for it to meet the needs of all users and creator. Some not very active users would found all prior news only after a while. Some of them could decide to donate, but only if veterans of the forum like Doomlord would continue their helpful topics and the project would be slowly moving forward. Required amounts could be obtained only after the relationship users-creator about donations would be something like a normal thing, not like it is now.
Therefore I mean that if the forum due to nothing new would die slowly and the campaign progress would stop in a nearest future, when the main plot in Ch.10 would come to its end - there would be a fail in reaching of the aims. For sure no development of the project and a forum (it could be slow, really slow, but it is for sure vital) would lead to no donations at all.

Sorry for my poor english, but I still hope that my view is clear.
 
Title: Re: In need of total unification
Post by: Shinokyofu on June 06, 2013, 05:35:37 pm
Ha...Thanks for making the thread Zozi. Sadly it's not something that can be easily done. A unification that is :-\.

We had already a discussion about the forum's inactivitty. It was such a big drama...And now we're trying to do something about the campaign itself. Not something easy I tell you ::).

Sorry for my poor english, but I still hope that my view is clear.

As clear as water, but and then...? What I mean is, you said what should be done. But how will it be done? How can we "unificate" as you said?
Title: Re: In need of total unification
Post by: Aeroblyctos on June 07, 2013, 12:30:33 am
The campaign will always be free. About Doomlord he should've always knew that I won't never give the strings from my arms to others. That is simply my way to do the campaign; I will do the campaign alone, but you guys can help me. He's there once again making things to look so dramatic, but we love drama, don't we?

I can't do anything about the inactivity. That's up to you guys.

Killa will do another walkthrough about the campaign, maybe that will help. Last one gained 40,000 viewers.
Title: Re: In need of total unification
Post by: Doomlord on June 07, 2013, 12:50:38 am
I don't recall making any recent drama. I just stated the facts but you know what? I had had enough and I stopped caring. That is that.

The shitloads of negative attitude and unreasonable discrimination should have driven me away months ago. I was weak back then and feared abandonment. However, with the current unfold of events, we part ways from now on. And I leave with a smile knowing that I finally made a right choice.
Title: Re: In need of total unification
Post by: Flecky on June 07, 2013, 03:06:27 am
The nostalgic chat died already. Forum statistics have been dying over time. Eventually the forum will die too, unless a miraculous rich person starts donating 50$s each week.

Looking at TCO is like looking at the economic cycles; it starts from a fixed scratch, builds up over time, eventually reaching its peak. Then it crashes. Welcome to real life, no game lasts forever with high popularity, for as long as the evolution of technology goes forward.

It is typical for a human being to mourn after downs and deaths and all, but what is not healthy is to mourn forever.
Title: Re: In need of total unification
Post by: Aeroblyctos on June 07, 2013, 03:11:35 am
Flecky, you're right.

But there is a slight chance that another golden age happens if the book is a success. It could bring a lot of attention. Why? Because the campaign tells more about Oelivert. If one has read the book and desperately wants more information, he could come here.
Title: Re: In need of total unification
Post by: TrueZozi on June 07, 2013, 03:28:44 am
Mu idea was about some replenish of the community, maybe something that would be posted by Aero in Hive comments, that would redirect people from hiveworkshop to tcocampaign.com. And about success of the book - for sure it would be! But also I do not see a direct link between the book and inputed-in-wc3-campaign - I mean - I read the book and liked it, but I've never used to play wc3. And I think that it relates to the vast majority :o
The campaign itself needs some - again let it be slooooow very very sloooow - but a progress. Something like as if current work on some new feature would take about a week or two - without a donation this feature would take unknown period, but with progress updates - for the community to understand that the project is not dead.
Title: Re: In need of total unification
Post by: Flecky on June 07, 2013, 04:18:15 am
But there is a slight chance that another golden age happens if the book is a success. It could bring a lot of attention.

Hopefully, yes, as otherwise there'll be more of these periods when suddenly activity raises sky-high by 200-300% and the next month it crashes devastatingly back to start. Kinda like TCO was some sort of a season-bound event.
Title: Re: In need of total unification
Post by: TrueZozi on June 07, 2013, 04:50:55 am
To prove my words about donation-to-be-sufficient period just look to the donations list of Hive with it's constant updates - dunno if it is what hive team wants.
http://www.hiveworkshop.com/forums/apps.php?p=accounts (http://www.hiveworkshop.com/forums/apps.php?p=accounts)
Hive is an old project, but for sure TCO is one of the headliners there. Maybe some connection with hive could attract more attention - something like making a TCO a hosted project on the main page (as like they do it already for other much more simple maps).
Title: Re: In need of total unification
Post by: Aeroblyctos on June 07, 2013, 05:01:36 am
But there is a slight chance that another golden age happens if the book is a success. It could bring a lot of attention.

Hopefully, yes, as otherwise there'll be more of these periods when suddenly activity raises sky-high by 200-300% and the next month it crashes devastatingly back to start. Kinda like TCO was some sort of a season-bound event.
Haha, indeed.

To prove my words about donation-to-be-sufficient period just look to the donations list of Hive with it's constant updates - dunno if it is what hive team wants.
http://www.hiveworkshop.com/forums/apps.php?p=accounts (http://www.hiveworkshop.com/forums/apps.php?p=accounts)
Hive is an old project, but for sure TCO is one of the headliners there. Maybe some connection with hive could attract more attention - something like making a TCO a hosted project on the main page (as like they do it already for other much more simple maps).

TCO is already a hosted project there.
Title: Re: In need of total unification
Post by: Flecky on June 07, 2013, 05:44:57 am
Zozi, you don't see the scale here; Hive probably contains 90% of the players of TCO (since most of us came here through Hive) AND thousands of others. And on top of that, Hive offers thousands of other maps whereas this site offers a collection of 10 in a campaign. You're trying to bite too big piece of a pie here.

And even if you look at the donations, you can see many months where Hive has received barely any donations at all. If you think Hive is a big-class business, think again; it's not.
Title: Re: In need of total unification
Post by: TrueZozi on June 07, 2013, 06:17:52 am
Zozi, you don't see the scale here; Hive probably contains 90% of the players of TCO (since most of us came here through Hive) AND thousands of others. And on top of that, Hive offers thousands of other maps whereas this site offers a collection of 10 in a campaign. You're trying to bite too big piece of a pie here.

And even if you look at the donations, you can see many months where Hive has received barely any donations at all. If you think Hive is a big-class business, think again; it's not.

Man, that was exactly what I was talking about - if Hive with it's huge amount of users and constant updates and changes received far non-constant donations, then TCO in current circumstances will for sure fail in receiving a sufficient donation amounts in the next month or two, and if after it the site would become non-updateable - for sure the project will rest in peace.

About users on hive - I was talking about some unique feature after which ONLY TCO users from hive would be attracted to TCOcmpaign.com, and not like it is now - there is still active comment section in tco section of hiveworkshop, sometimes it is even more active then this forum.

Title: Re: In need of total unification
Post by: Blackdoom59 on June 07, 2013, 06:24:24 am
I will most likely side with doomlord on some facts.Aero wants to do the campaign alone , with no DIRECT help , but he did accepted doom's spells.Now , i don't know what's got doom so upset or why the forum is crumbleing , but I know that Aero should NEVER have started a project of the size of TCO by himself.If he found 2-3 worthy helpers , TCO would be bugless and playable right now.

When you want to do something by yourself make sure you can.Most of aero's past projects were made with the help of other people.He has decided to take TCO , the biggest  project he ever planned on himself.And you might think you are helping him with ideas , but in truth you are just making his work harder.He has a shitload of bugs to take care of alone , ideas come in also , alongside with the swarm of "hurry the **** up" requests.

I understand him on the work part , I always did.But aero is not perfect , he has a lot of flows that you may or may not know.I found out about most of them trought the years I've stayed on this forum , trying to help , but the worst one is in my oppinion greed.Think about it.Why would he start a project like TCO by himself?

I don't want to bash anyone , I don't want to follow Doom's steps , and I also don't want TCO to stop alongside with this forum , I am just here to state facts and ask for answers.
Title: Re: In need of total unification
Post by: Flecky on June 07, 2013, 06:33:33 am
@Zozi, ..... I kept reading and reading your previous posts over and over again but for some reason it still doesn't appeal to me as if you resisted the idea... Well, if your point in the end is what you just said, then sorry about that. It's not the first time I've understood someone wrong.

I understand him on the work part , I always did.But aero is not perfect , he has a lot of flows that you may or may not know.I found out about most of them trought the years I've stayed on this forum , trying to help , but the worst one is in my oppinion greed.Think about it.Why would he start a project like TCO by himself?
Title: Re: In need of total unification
Post by: Aeroblyctos on June 07, 2013, 06:39:34 am
Quote from: Doomlord
with no DIRECT help
People would just mess up the campaign if I give it to other people. Besides I've always hated to put systems / spells I cannot understand myself to the campaign. Besides I think I've done fairly good job with the campaign and I don't think other people would've helped me a lot. Maybe we could have few more spells and perhaps some system would be a little more effective but that's about it. I would've never allowed other than me for example create cinematics because then the campaign and the story wouldn't be like I wanted.

Quote from: Doomlord
I know that Aero should NEVER have started a project of the size of TCO by himself.If he found 2-3 worthy helpers , TCO would be bugless and playable right now.
I agree with you.

Quote from: Doomlord
When you want to do something by yourself make sure you can.Most of aero's past projects were made with the help of other people
Definitely not. They were just small projects which were easy to create. Well, except Mystery of Friza and The Land of Legends. The original TCO I almost finished and I was already doing chapter 10 until I suddenly started doing the campaign from all over again with these Elite and Epic bosses.

Quote from: Doomlord
I understand him on the work part , I always did.But aero is not perfect , he has a lot of flows that you may or may not know.I found out about most of them trought the years I've stayed on this forum , trying to help , but the worst one is in my oppinion greed.Think about it.Why would he start a project like TCO by himself?
Greed? Hmm, interesting point. I've always said to myself I'm not greed but perhaps I was when starting the project. Am I greed?
Title: Re: In need of total unification
Post by: Doomlord on June 07, 2013, 07:08:24 am
Well it seems that I can't escape my former self no matter what. After spending sometime thinking I felt like what I did earlier was so childish and immature. Perhaps what was on my mind at that time was pure hate and anger bottled up after a long time and I acted on impulse. I came back early and you can say that I am not determinate at all. What can I say? It is true. I am still 17. I don't expect to be viewed as an adult after all.

Anyway, I am here now as an ordinary member. And I will not work with Aero anymore, I made up my mind on that. Only bickering awaits in the end so let's not walk that path again, right Aero?

Greetings again guys. I will be under your care once again.

P.S: Hope I am not dramatizing. Honestly speaking, the line is so friggin' thin :P

P.P.S: Feel free to flame me or something. I am missing that right now.
Title: Re: In need of total unification
Post by: Blackdoom59 on June 07, 2013, 10:39:38 am
After reading this
Quote
People would just mess up the campaign if I give it to other people. Besides I've always hated to put systems / spells I cannot understand myself to the campaign. Besides I think I've done fairly good job with the campaign and I don't think other people would've helped me a lot. Maybe we could have few more spells and perhaps some system would be a little more effective but that's about it. I would've never allowed other than me for example create cinematics because then the campaign and the story wouldn't be like I wanted.
I can say that yes , you are greedy.

Kitabatake helped you much in the past and you said that yourself.What is the reason you wouldn't let him help you with the campaign?You could just tell him to get his ass off the storyline.

But it's pointless to argue the past , you will most likely finnish the campaign just as you started it - alone.But was it worth all the money/time/**** up **** you went trough , just so you can prove you can do it alone?Or maybe you did not what to prove anything , maybe you just don't like working with someone else , maybe you like having all the fame to yourself , maybe you don't like to share.

Either way , if I was you and had your reason ,I would have let people helped me eitherway.
Title: Re: In need of total unification
Post by: Flecky on June 07, 2013, 10:59:09 am
Umm... Aero, you do realise you were quoting BLACK, not DOOM there? :P It also seems to me like you were trying to speak to Doom and not Black... But the quotes are definitely Black's.

@Doom, I'll flame you for being gone for just ~1 day. ;) Too low too soon.

And finally, I agree with Black; after reading what Aero just said, it's somewhat easy to say that he is greedy. Or a stubborn artist, if you can draw a line somewhere between those two.
Title: Re: In need of total unification
Post by: Aeroblyctos on June 07, 2013, 12:51:19 pm
Kitabatake helped you much in the past and you said that yourself.What is the reason you wouldn't let him help you with the campaign?You could just tell him to get his ass off the storyline.
He has his own projects. He's not interested to help me that much, I will have to whine him for weeks if I want something from him. I've got from him many things already such as the stats system, Fradz model and campaign screen.

But it's pointless to argue the past , you will most likely finnish the campaign just as you started it - alone.But was it worth all the money/time/**** up **** you went trough , just so you can prove you can do it alone?Or maybe you did not what to prove anything , maybe you just don't like working with someone else , maybe you like having all the fame to yourself , maybe you don't like to share.
Share, or perhaps I just don't care? We're going here too philosophical right now. I could ask you at this point what is the meaning of life?

I don't think I'm greedy but I can be like that. But I'm stubborn, definitely, I'm stubborn at some points. Also I'm sometimes unwilling to learn new ways. When I've learned one way to do a thing then I do it that way. That's why I've never learned JASS, I was happy with GUI so I stick with it.
Title: Re: In need of total unification
Post by: Shinokyofu on June 07, 2013, 09:34:42 pm
P.P.S: Feel free to flame me or something. I am missing that right now.
@Doom, I'll flame you for being gone for just ~1 day. ;) Too low too soon.

So true...Doom changes his mind faster than Aero changes his avatar. Is that flaming ;D?

P.S: Hope I am not dramatizing. Honestly speaking, the line is so friggin' thin :P

???

I don't know if you guys noticed...but this has turned into one of little dramas you guys(also me ::)) love so much since some time already. Well, it only shows that we really need unification ::).

Now...

Aero? Greedy? I'll side with him for now: I don't think so. Stubborn? Of course! Perhaps a little conceited? Not just a little! But greedy? Everyone is a little, I can't say he's that much...
Title: Re: In need of total unification
Post by: TrueZozi on June 08, 2013, 01:27:53 pm
Agree with Aero's view about implementing of the codes and features in campaign that only could be clearly understood by him. For example if some bug occurs it may not be directly affected on others implementations but it would be for sure hard for Aero to eliminate such bug/error - not about Doomlord's spell because he is always here and with us and could check his codes - I meant about others non-constant users.
Title: Re: In need of total unification
Post by: Flecky on June 08, 2013, 03:09:36 pm
Agree with Aero's view about implementing of the codes and features in campaign that only could be clearly understood by him.

Yes, I too love being a Lord of the Wait. Some fantasy characters are thousands of years old, so why should I complain about waiting something for 10 years?
Title: Re: In need of total unification
Post by: TrueZozi on June 08, 2013, 04:31:42 pm
Agree with Aero's view about implementing of the codes and features in campaign that only could be clearly understood by him.

Yes, I too love being a Lord of the Wait. Some fantasy characters are thousands of years old, so why should I complain about waiting something for 10 years?

I'm not sure if I understood your sarcasm right
Title: Re: In need of total unification
Post by: Shinokyofu on June 08, 2013, 07:07:46 pm
Agree with Aero's view about implementing of the codes and features in campaign that only could be clearly understood by him.

Yes, I too love being a Lord of the Wait. Some fantasy characters are thousands of years old, so why should I complain about waiting something for 10 years?

I'm not sure if I understood your sarcasm right

Ha! :D. He's probably conspiracing against us...Or he just likes to make us(me), lazy people, to think more that necessary ::).