The Chosen Ones
General Information => Site Discussion => Topic started by: Aeroblyctos on September 03, 2012, 03:01:17 pm
-
Hey everyone!
I've seen some negative attitude last few weeks around the website. I don't like this and I would like that from now on everyone is friendly to each other.
I understand that we have those Masterthreads that are strict. Some members of our community has given a great effort to them, so please follow how to post there. The idea of those threads is to keep the forums clean from hundreds of smaller threads and make my job easier.
One word I would like to be forgotten and not used around the website. The word "fanboy". I'm not the only one annoyed by this, but many others as well. So please, do not use that word anymore here.
This is a friendly discussion.
Have a nice day! [-)
-
I completely agree with Aero, and personally I was about to start a thread of my own for this very reason.
I don't normally bring up issues that have cooled down, but a particular incident a few days ago has actually resulted in driving a helpful member away from the forums (I spoke to him via PM), and I don't want something like this to happen again. I understand that this is probably going to create an argument and more conflict temporarily, but bear with me, I am sure that from posting this afterwards certain wrong habits will be brought to light and the forum will be made a better place.
So damn straight I am going to bring this up right here so that people can learn from past mistakes, and possibly have the decency to feel ashamed/apologize.
A new member called Merlon who has posted many bugs and given his time and effort to TCO was treated in a manner that is, frankly, disgusting. A simple angry outburst is forgivable, you could apologize and that's that. Not only did this forumer insult Merlon again, but another esteemed member of the forum joined in the insults, and started encouraging him as well.
And another new member Croco who spoke out against the injustice was also verbally attacked without right. I don't want to name and shame but the people responsible know who they are and I personally think they should sort themselves out.
The worst part is that there were no apologies made. Rather Merlin and Croco simply stopped replying and that was how the argument didn't continue.
I spoke to one of those who are responsible for this bad behaviour, and I believe he understands that what he did was wrong (I hope so) but I believe there are apologies to be made in public to set things right.
If anyone thinks I am speaking unjustly, I invite them to please read over what was said in that incident from a neutral perspective. I would quote the kind of phrases used here, but there is little need.
Can I just make another thing very clear no one is under any kind of compulsion to contribute to these forums. If someone joins just to congratulate Aero and then leaves then that is their right. If someone joins to point out a bug and leaves then that is their right (and tbh they should be thanked for bothering). People can do as they wish as long as they don't break the rules. Calling people who don't stay for longer than one post "fanboys" is just being elitist. It isn't a good thing.
If you disagree I have no problem with that, but feel free to point out your reasoning.
-
You guys say that want to avoid drama, but you aren't being dramatic yourselves? It doesn't matter who we are talking about, new members, old members, active members, whatever, the problem with all of you is take everything with a level of seriousness beyond normal.
It's a forum! Follow the rules! Besides that you don't have to pleasure anyone else. If someone call you a fanboy...sorry for you, but people already called me things way worse than this(not in this forum). If you feel this hurt just because of this, it's just ridiculous...who the heck cares for what someone from the other side of the world is thinking about you?
I don't completly disagree with you hamza, you're right most of the time, yet i must say something: A forum is someplace that you log in to post something and then vanish? Why not? It's something you decide, you're absolutely right! But why should i feel thanked for it? I don't bother doing things i don't really want(or need) to do, no one here is doing anything they don't want to(if someone is, sorry, but for what reason?). Yet, hurt someone's feellings aren't something that should be praised, that's for sure(but again, i can't see reason to get hurt).
Aero is right about the negative attitude...and this is it. So what? Like hamza said, you can do whatever you want here if it's according to the rules. Even if you hurt someone, if its circumtances match with the rules then no problem here. It's a fact, we can't control what they do, but they can't control us too. No one is at disadvantage here.
Aaah...just to complete the post, to be frank, you guys are acting like kids, everyone one of you guys, me too by the way(oh, really?). If there's something that i really agree with you is that we should stop this, yet, the way you act looks like siding(even if its don't), to make a side win and make the other one lose. This is not "peace", this is just a excuse.
Oh yeah, i'm being dramatic, i'm kind of contradicting myself.
Just to make it short:
Stop with this things about dramatization of the fanboys situation(i don't plan to give up the word either, it's just a word, sorry, Aero, but if you really want it to disappear then put it as a proihibited word in the forum rules). If you guys really want something to change, it's the only way. A war gives nothing but regret.
If you didn't understand me in some situation, you wants a explanation, it'll be my pleasure to answer, yet it'll be just more drama. Ask at you own risk.
PS: Hamza, the last thing i want is to you or someone else to see this a fight/war declaration. I'm just giving my opinion that no one asked(i can do everything, can't I :D?).
-
A new member called Merlon who has posted many bugs and given his time and effort to TCO was treated in a manner that is, frankly, disgusting. A simple angry outburst is forgivable, you could apologize and that's that. Not only did this forumer insult Merlon again, but another esteemed member of the forum joined in the insults, and started encouraging him as well.
And another new member Croco who spoke out against the injustice was also verbally attacked without right. I don't want to name and shame but the people responsible know who they are and I personally think they should sort themselves out.
The worst part is that there were no apologies made. Rather Merlin and Croco simply stopped replying and that was how the argument didn't continue.
I spoke to one of those who are responsible for this bad behaviour, and I believe he understands that what he did was wrong (I hope so) but I believe there are apologies to be made in public to set things right.
Okay I deleted my earlier comment after reading hamza's post because it seems this 'fanboy' issue has gone quite far and mundane reasoning isn't going to work. Now this quoted passage here has some faults with the 'facts'. First I didn't encourage Yggy to insult him nor join in the insult. I merely expressed my own opinion concerning the matter. The manner that was used is neither disgusting nor immature. You concluded that yourself.
About CroCo he was the one who used the word 'bark' in his post. A very insulting that was the last straw for me. He wanted to turn the drama into a war and I am more than happy to escalate it for him. Then again I am under no obligation to respect, tolerate or remain neutral towards members like him, especially once you consider the fact that bug-reporters are easily replaced. Yes I may have attacked him verbally but he started it first. Once a war began there are only allies and enemies. They attack us and we retaliate. Yggy is my ally and CroCo is the enemy. Enemies must be annihilated, simple logic. And again for emphasis in this war we didn't involve Merlon, mind you. That being said, I am not going to execute any form of public apology because:
- I didn't insult Merlon in the first place, in other words, I didn't do anything wrong.
- CroCo insulted Yggy first, and I joined in because Yggy is my ally and I don't like seeing others hurt my ally.
Can I just make another thing very clear no one is under any kind of compulsion to contribute to these forums. If someone joins just to congratulate Aero and then leaves then that is their right. If someone joins to point out a bug and leaves then that is their right (and tbh they should be thanked for bothering). People can do as they wish as long as they don't break the rules. Calling people who don't stay for longer than one post "fanboys" is just being elitist. It isn't a good thing.
Then we, in return, are under no kind of compulsion to respect the fanboys. They hate us and that is their problem, not ours, because we don't like them either. They want war then bring it on, we are not afraid. If they want peace, we shall make peace with them. It is completely their own choice to make. And, I am going to be damn straight again, 1-post-bug-reporters are easily replacable and I don't care if they leave or not because sooner or later someone else will show up. I am not gonna be thankful unless they have than 10 posts dedicated to bug-reporting. You and Aero can join forces together, but I still have others to back me up.
Peace.
Doomlord
-
Lol shin you make me smile!
I agree generally with the stuff you said apart from one important point: A forum is NOT a place where you can log in and do whatever you want just because no one knows who you really are so no one should care. A lot of stuff is OK, but it is not acceptable to insult someone. Aero doesn't want people driven away from this forum because they get insulted or see others get insulted (at least I'm banking everything I say on that fact anyway lol). Who would want to continue spending their time on a forum where they are insulted by the elite members? I know I wouldn't. Stuff like that will stop new people from joining and will cause contributing members to leave permanently. My proof? Merlon told me he has no intention of posting anything here again. We have lost a member that may have developed to be a great benefit to TCO. Should we care? I think anyone who wants the best for this forum and TCO should care.
Commitments start somewhere. People will start with one post, maybe it's even against the rules. But if they meet courteous and helpful and forgiving people they will be encouraged to contribute more, until they develop a bond with other members and that's what will lead to people writing guides and making the forum great. Don't we want that? Not everyone joins a forum with full intention to post every day etc, most of the time someone joins to point out a single thing, then slowly slowly builds up to an active member.
So do what aero says and stop with calling new members fanboys, as well as acting elitist. I'm gonna say it now, it LOOKS like people on this forum use the word for any new member that does anything that irritates them whether good or bad.
Not happy with his post? Huh, he's a typical fanboy...
(Like I get if someone comes up and says something like "YOU ALL SUCK GET LOST, AERO IS A GENIUS MARRY ME PLEEEEEEASE" then you call him a fanboy, but if someone only posts to tell bugs then I really don't understand how that's being a fanboy...)
Anyhow, Doom I'll post up the whole conversation here in just a bit so we can see clearly what happened. I don't want to insult you or anyone else, I just feel that this kind of incident should be learnt from and avoided in the future.
The incident:
- Can't finish optional quest "Holgro" (only find 1part at shop). Can't finish "Maximilian" (only find damned mask forthe damned set) Maybe i miss something.
Because that's YOUR damn problem. It has nothing to do with bugs.
And can you bother to learn to edit posts?
Because that's YOUR damn problem. It has nothing to do with bugs.
When i read the "Holgro" quest, i undestand i must find the last part of the empty dig spot i have found.
For the damned set, i say i have maybe miss something.
All the boss, all steal and dig done. I just ask for verify the item can be found.
Maybe i am blind and don't see the item. Or maybe is as the medicine quest the item doesn't exist anymore.
But, yes all i have report is not bug and it's my fault. I will stop to report.
And can you bother to learn to edit posts?
Done
But, yes all i have report is not bug and it's my fault. I will stop to report.
Dude no need to flip out like that. Just calm down. You have been doing a great job reporting detailed bugs of each chapter and I myself appreciate that. Yggy is a bit angry because the 'bugs' he quoted aren't bugs. It is just that you didn't check carefully before posting them.
However there is still an advice that I need to give you. If possible, try using better English in your posts. Good English doesn't only make your posts easier to read, it also makes them more appealing and helpful.
But, yes all i have report is not bug and it's my fault. I will stop to report.
Sigh... A stereotypical fanboy... Only knows how to report bugs, and starts to throw tantrums all over the place when being criticised...
You completely misunderstood the post. I only quoted that one 'bug'; which obviously meant that I was only referring to that 'bug', and none of the other ones. Yet, you felt butthurt (since that post was meant to be criticism), and removed all the other bugs that you posted, without realising that they are true bugs.
How dramatic.
Yggdrasill maybe is it time to rethink the way you behave ?!
You are way too agressive when you speak to the community members especially when they are trying to contribute and help the campaign development.
If I were at Merlon's place I also would have felt offended, he just did a great job reporting a great deal of bugs and instead of thanking him, all you do is to bark at him.
How dramatic.
Yggdrasill maybe is it time to rethink the way you behave ?!
You are way too agressive when you speak to the community members especially when they are trying to contribute and help the campaign development.
If I were at Merlon's place I also would have felt offended, he just did a great job reporting a great deal of bugs and instead of thanking him, all you do is to bark at him.
How dramatic.
At first this is just between Merlon and Yggdrasill but after reading this post I have to interfere.
I had dealt with a guy just like you before. One who attempted to interfere and talked like you are the one who was offended/felt butthurt in the first place. I don't know if you have had any clashed with Yggy in the past but it seems like you are trying to exact revenge on him through this for your personal gain. I will analyze the situation here for you because you are completely wrong. At first Yggy quoted some NON-BUGS from Merlon's post then said (rather rudely) that they were his problems and he should learn how to combine all the bug reports into a single post instead of stretching them out. He only talked a bit rude but his post wasn't flaming or insulting yet the guy Merlon threw a tantrum and started sulking like a girl, even going as far as deleting all his bug reports. He did it deliberately and Yggy's post wasn't completely responsible. Then Yggy pointed out how the guy misunderstood him and that deleting the bug reports was actions carried out by his own will.
Now you came here and posted that Yggy is offensive and stuffs. You even said that Yggy 'barked' to Merlon in a post that is (supposed to be) from someone who is trying to show empathy and understanding. This is really a cliche, insulting the 'bad' guy and supporting the 'good' guy. Have you done anything to contribute to the campaign's development yourself except for reporting bugs? The bugs can be reported by anyone who play the campaign and pay a little attention. Unline you and Merlon, Yggy here works hard to help the campaign in multiple ways, exceeding your combined contribution many times. And don't bother flaming/insulting me for this post, since I will be ignoring the posts that are directly aimed at me but I will be more than happy to have a nice and civilized conversation with you instead.
Peace. And yes I don't use 'How dramatic' because borrowing the insulted target's phrase isn't such a glorious thing to do in the first place after all.
You are way too agressive when you speak to the community members especially when they are trying to contribute and help the campaign development.
Aggressive, eh? I only criticised Merlon of posting not-bugs at the bug thread. And if you ask me, that post was offensive towards ME too; Merlon didn't look at the item list at all, and just assumed that the item is not obtainable. If it was truly unobtainable, he/she/xe/it/they should have at least put more details.
If I were at Merlon's place I also would have felt offended, he just did a great job reporting a great deal of bugs and instead of thanking him, all you do is to bark at him.
Anyone who is remotely attentive can report these bugs. If Merlon didn't post these bugs, then someone else would eventually do so.
Still...i wonder why people like to make a fuss in forums, chats and stuff, if it's not the funny type then it's no good. I mean, why get offended by something like words from some guy that you' ve never met before? Just give up, shut up and go do something more useful :P.
If only those fanboys can understand such wise words.
Either way, this is a bug masterthread anyway. So why don't we just leave this in the peaceful way and turn the "Bug masterthread" back into its original function.
Simply put, they want war/drama/whatever so we bring it to them. That is all. Why bother denying them such joy?
that they were his problems and he should learn how to combine all the bug reports into a single post instead of stretching them out. He only talked a bit rude but his post wasn't flaming or insulting yet the guy Merlon threw a tantrum and started sulking like a girl, even going as far as deleting all his bug reports.
I put all the thing i have report on 1 post. My first post on the thread.
Or i miss undestand?
I put all the thing i have report on 1 post. My first post on the thread.
Or i miss undestand?
Oops, I didn't see that. Well that is very nice of you to do so.
Anyway about this whole arguement I think we should end it here. Let bygone be bygone okay?
-
Commitments start somewhere. People will start with one post, maybe it's even against the rules. But if they meet courteous and helpful and forgiving people they will be encouraged to contribute more, until they develop a bond with other members and that's what will lead to people writing guides and making the forum great. Don't we want that? Not everyone joins a forum with full intention to post every day etc, most of the time someone joins to point out a single thing, then slowly slowly builds up to an active member.
So do what aero says and stop with calling new members fanboys, as well as acting elitist. I'm gonna say it now, it LOOKS like people on this forum use the word for any new member that does anything that irritates them whether good or bad.
Not happy with his post? Huh, he's a typical fanboy...
I object to your point hamza. Unless you can find a good example, I am not going to buy it. Sorry pal but to prove something to me you will need proofs.
-
Commitments start somewhere. People will start with one post, maybe it's even against the rules. But if they meet courteous and helpful and forgiving people they will be encouraged to contribute more, until they develop a bond with other members and that's what will lead to people writing guides and making the forum great. Don't we want that? Not everyone joins a forum with full intention to post every day etc, most of the time someone joins to point out a single thing, then slowly slowly builds up to an active member.
So do what aero says and stop with calling new members fanboys, as well as acting elitist. I'm gonna say it now, it LOOKS like people on this forum use the word for any new member that does anything that irritates them whether good or bad.
Not happy with his post? Huh, he's a typical fanboy...
I object to your point hamza. Unless you can find a good example, I am not going to buy it. Sorry pal but to prove something to me you will need proofs.
Heheh I certainly would but in this forum I think you may have scared off all the potential candidates by calling them fanboys...
Sorry I'm just joking :)
But seriously, how will you ever know if you don't give them a chance?
ANYWAY, regarding the incident, would you like me to point out where you insulted him doom or do you accept you did something wrong? Nothing personal I just want to make it clear again
-
Heheh I certainly would but in this forum I think you may have scared off all the potential candidates by calling them fanboys...
Sorry I'm just joking :)
But seriously, how will you ever know if you don't give them a chance?
I had always wanted to see the forum expanded and the community grew bigger than ever once. Unlike you I indeed have seen many 'candidates'. At first I was really happy, gave them a warm welcome and stuffs. But then after a while they were gone and I started to lose trust, with my old dream fragmenting each time. In every 10 new members, there is only a 50% chance to encounter one who will stay and be active. The rest just came and left, like shadows. I understood that it is their own freedom and I have no right to interfere. As I said previously it is completely their own choice. I respect those who stay and contribute like you or Shino and despise those fanboys. But then again what good have they brought apart from bug-reporting? It is not such a big issue to dramatize after all.
-
I'm sorry what you had to go through losing all those potential good members after your efforts.
BTW I edited my post above, if you would like to read the last bit.
-
ANYWAY, regarding the incident, would you like me to point out where you insulted him doom or do you accept you did something wrong? Nothing personal I just want to make it clear again
Well enlighten me then.
-
I also fully agree with Aero's post. A forum, or better a community should not be fragmented into a part of elitist people (whose achievements are out of the question) and a part of "lesser" member to be called fanboys. I simply see not how this is helping a community to grow.
-
I also fully agree with Aero's post. A forum, or better a community should not be fragmented into a part of elitist people (whose achievements are out of the question) and a part of "lesser" member to be called fanboys. I simply see not how this is helping a community to grow.
I agree with manstein's statement. This is in no way some kind of discrimination. It is just that the new members need to follow the rules and know what 'common decency' means and I am cool with that.
-
First of all, be an adult. Think like an adult and don't start or continue flamewars. I understand most of us are not adults, but at least try to be like one. Be friendly and understand others without looking their age or where they are from. Do not mock other members around the site.
If you need to mock someone, mock me. I can take that. But many of us can't.
It's a forum! Follow the rules! Besides that you don't have to pleasure anyone else. If someone call you a fanboy...sorry for you, but people already called me things way worse than this(not in this forum). If you feel this hurt just because of this, it's just ridiculous...who the heck cares for what someone from the other side of the world is thinking about you?
People are different, we have to remember that. That is why we should understand our differences. Especially as this is global forum, anyone can join from from anywhere. It's better to be careful with your words than be hasty.
He wanted to turn the drama into a war and I am more than happy to escalate it for him.
This is a wrong attitude. You clearly state that you want war. You perhaps didn't start it, but you continued it. Very bad and wrong attitude from a moderator. Instead, you should have been more calm and stop the coming war.
But everyone learns from mistakes. You're probably first time moderator so very understandable. Next time I hope you'll douse the fires before they start to spread.
Stop with this things about dramatization of the fanboys situation(i don't plan to give up the word either, it's just a word, sorry, Aero, but if you really want it to disappear then put it as a proihibited word in the forum rules). If you guys really want something to change, it's the only way. A war gives nothing but regret.
Now that we have started talking about the case, we will talk to the end until everyone is satisfied.
I fear that if I create a rule not to use the word it won't do any good. Instead it might make you to use the word even more. So I'm here to ask you to stop using it. It gives a bad impression of the forum.
The bottom line is that I don't want the forum become elitist as many sites have became. I won't become elitist, I hope you guys won't too. I honestly take feedback and criticsm without looking age, where you're from or how long you've been here. I believe in a society of equality.
-
Thank you a lot Aero, I hope everyone including myself will take heed of your advice.
Well here we are doom, at your service as usual.
One thing I want to point out, I don't blame Yggdrasill that much for what he wrote, as he was angry (even though it was a misunderstanding) and acted in anger. However doom you were a bystander and could easily see what was happening and should know better than to do what you did. Anyway, here we are:
Yggy flips at Merlon after a misunderstanding Because that's YOUR damn problem. It has nothing to do with bugs. And can you bother to learn to edit posts?
Merlon genuinely thought he was reporting a bug, which he clarified in his next post with no retaliation at all. He even takes Yggys advice and edits his posts. And he is offended by Yggy's attitude and completely understandably says he may as well not report bugs any more. He is perfectly within his rights to do that, after being treated the way he was.
To that Yggy simply continues the insults Sigh... A stereotypical fanboy... Only knows how to report bugs, and starts to throw tantrums all over the place when being criticised... Yet, you felt butthurt... How dramatic
Instead of supporting Merlon after he was treated unjustly, doom says this:
Dude no need to flip out like that. Just calm down.
Is that the right course of action? Don't defend someone against injustice, but rather tell them off and in doing so encourage the bad actions of Yggdrasill?
So because you wouldn't defend Merlon when he was being wronged, Croco comes in and does it. His intentions are to be praised, if I was there I would have said (almost) the same. Here is exactly what he said:
Yggdrasill maybe is it time to rethink the way you behave ?!
You are way too agressive when you speak to the community members especially when they are trying to contribute and help the campaign development.
If I were at Merlon's place I also would have felt offended, he just did a great job reporting a great deal of bugs and instead of thanking him, all you do is to bark at him.
How dramatic.
That is an almost perfect response, apart from saying that Yggy barked at him. But seriously, after the kind of things Yggy said, this remark is nothing in comparison.
And now instead of at least acknowledging that yggy may have acted in anger, you start on Croco.
At first this is just between Merlon and Yggdrasill but after reading this post I have to interfere.
You had already interfered
I had dealt with a guy just like you before. One who attempted to interfere and talked like you are the one who was offended/felt butthurt in the first place. I don't know if you have had any clashed with Yggy in the past but it seems like you are trying to exact revenge on him through this for your personal gain.
Direct insult at Croco, even though he is right in standing up for the one treated unjustly.
I will analyze the situation here for you because you are completely wrong. At first Yggy quoted some NON-BUGS from Merlon's post then said (rather rudely) that they were his problems and he should learn how to combine all the bug reports into a single post instead of stretching them out. He only talked a bit rude but his post wasn't flaming or insulting
I am sure you would feel insulted by this:
"Because that's YOUR damn problem. It has nothing to do with bugs. And can you bother to learn to edit posts?"
yet the guy Merlon threw a tantrum and started sulking like a girl, even going as far as deleting all his bug reports. He did it deliberately and Yggy's post wasn't completely responsible. Then Yggy pointed out how the guy misunderstood him and that deleting the bug reports was actions carried out by his own will.
Firstly he neither threw a tantrum nor sulked. Secondly this is how Yggy "pointed out how the guy misunderstood him":
Sigh... A stereotypical fanboy... Only knows how to report bugs, and starts to throw tantrums all over the place when being criticised...
You completely misunderstood the post. I only quoted that one 'bug'; which obviously meant that I was only referring to that 'bug', and none of the other ones. Yet, you felt butthurt (since that post was meant to be criticism), and removed all the other bugs that you posted, without realising that they are true bugs.
How dramatic.
In other words, with more insults and flaming. Yet you seem to ignore that. In addition, yggy got it wrong, the bug that was actually not a bug, Merlon GENUINELY thought it was a bug. He said clearly "When i read the "Holgro" quest, i undestand i must find the last part of the empty dig spot i have found.
For the damned set, i say i have maybe miss something.
All the boss, all steal and dig done. I just ask for verify the item can be found."
He has tried to find the item, and the game is saying that all steal and dig is complete, so he is double checking that the item actually exists. He even explained why he thought the item may be missing "maybe is as the medicine quest the item doesn't exist anymore." which is perfectly reasonable. Not everyone thinks to go straight to the item list.
Now you came here and posted that Yggy is offensive and stuffs. You even said that Yggy 'barked' to Merlon in a post that is (supposed to be) from someone who is trying to show empathy and understanding. This is really a cliche, insulting the 'bad' guy and supporting the 'good' guy. Have you done anything to contribute to the campaign's development yourself except for reporting bugs? The bugs can be reported by anyone who play the campaign and pay a little attention. Unline you and Merlon, Yggy here works hard to help the campaign in multiple ways, exceeding your combined contribution many times.
This bit is proof of elitism. You can't say that Croco acted unjustly, so instead you bring his contribution to TCO into question. Basically you can't attack what he said because he has a strong argument, so instead you attack HIM. This isn't justice, nor a wise move as you are side-stepping the point: yggy shouldn't have acted the way he did as it is wrong. You can't say that the King is always in the right just because he's the King, even if he does a blatant injustice.
Also you are belittling other people's contributions to TCO "bugs here can be reported by anyone who play the campaign and pay a little attention". This is another insult to Merlon, and it is also not true. Bugs can be easily missed, so the more people reporting them, the less chance that some will escape our attention.
And don't bother flaming/insulting me for this post, since I will be ignoring the posts that are directly aimed at me but I will be more than happy to have a nice and civilized conversation with you instead.
Peace. And yes I don't use 'How dramatic' because borrowing the insulted target's phrase isn't such a glorious thing to do in the first place after all.
No comment.
And yggy's words: Anyone who is remotely attentive can report these bugs. If Merlon didn't post these bugs, then someone else would eventually do so.
Is this the correct attitude to have? I personally think it's elitism and the kind of thing that will drive people away from TCO forums "we don't care about any new members, we don't need you and we don't want you"
"If only those fanboys can understand such wise words."
Simply put, they want war/drama/whatever so we bring it to them. That is all. Why bother denying them such joy?
I still don't get how or why you have labeled them fanboys when they have never exhibited any fanboyist behaviour. Also, they never asked for war or drama. Yggy waged the war and Merlon was the one backing off. He didn't insult yggy back or do anything more to get his own back. Yet you have flipped it on its head.
"I put all the thing i have report on 1 post. My first post on the thread.
Or i miss undestand?"
Oops, I didn't see that. Well that is very nice of you to do so.
Anyway about this whole arguement I think we should end it here. Let bygone be bygone okay?
It is nice that you thank him after you realise your mistake, but don't you owe him an apology after what you have said and done? Imagine if you were in his shoes, how would you feel.
Instead you end the argument by saying "let it be, we'll just forget about it" after you were the one who had the last word, and you were the one who was mistaken (as you admitted). I'm pretty sure that is not mature behaviour.
So I am sorry if I have caused any grief to anyone, I personally would have preferred it if people just read the incident themselves and not asked me to point out the facts, as of course the truth can hurt.
Anyway if you believe I am mistaken please feel free to point out how. Thanks!
-
Okay thanks for enlightening me. Then again it seems there have been some misunderstanding here:
Is that the right course of action? Don't defend someone against injustice, but rather tell them off and in doing so encourage the bad actions of Yggdrasill?
First I said that because I didn't know Merlon modified his first post. He simply said 'Done' and I'm sure that 90% of people at that moment will think that he simply deleted all his reports and replaced them with 'edit'. It is completely a lack of information here. About the part where I 'told him off' and 'didn't protect him', I did that because I thought he deleted all of his posts just because of Yggy's words so I need to calm him down first before reasoning with him. Jumping at Yggy like what CroCo did there isn't my way of handling things. And I believe no injustice is made as this was more or less a misunderstanding on my part.
About the next part I agree that I did behave immaturely, but then again it is a biased view of the situation on my part.
That being said, I publicly apologize to anyone involved in the 'Bug Masterthread' incident and from now on I won't use the term 'fanboy' anymore. However there is still one final thing, if the new members don't follow the rules and ignore my warnings, I will have no choice but to dish out some other punishments instead.
-
Okay thanks for enlightening me. Then again it seems there have been some misunderstanding here:
Is that the right course of action? Don't defend someone against injustice, but rather tell them off and in doing so encourage the bad actions of Yggdrasill?
First I said that because I didn't know Merlon modified his first post. He simply said 'Done' and I'm sure that 90% of people at that moment will think that he simply deleted all his reports and replaced them with 'edit'. It is completely a lack of information here. About the part where I 'told him off' and 'didn't protect him', I did that because I thought he deleted all of his posts just because of Yggy's words so I need to calm him down first before reasoning with him. Jumping at Yggy like what CroCo did there isn't my way of handling things. And I believe no injustice is made as this was more or less a misunderstanding on my part.
About the next part I agree that I did behave immaturely, but then again it is a biased view of the situation on my part.
That being said, I publicly apologize to anyone involved in the 'Bug Masterthread' incident and from now on I won't use the term 'fanboy' anymore. However there is still one final thing, if the new members don't follow the rules and ignore my warnings, I will have no choice but to dish out some other punishments instead.
I can see that a lot of the stuff you said were due to that misunderstanding there, but then when he cleared it up right at the end, you didn't apologize at all.
That was the main problem
After you realise you misunderstood and realise how your actions are being portrayed now that you know what has happened, it would have been right to apologize then, not simply:
Oops, I didn't see that. Well that is very nice of you to do so.
Anyway about this whole arguement I think we should end it here. Let bygone be bygone okay?
He has been wronged and at this point after you realise it, just ending it off like that is an injustice, and this is what led to me using the word "disgusting".
So at the very least, I think you owe Merlon a public apology to his name. He may not see it but at least other people will know that there is justice on these Forums.
As for new members not following the rules, then definitely there are set procedures that you must observe as moderators. You should warn first and make sure they understand, lead it into a temporary ban if they don't really bother about the rules and think you won't do anything, and only if the culprit deliberately and repeatedly doesn't take heed after that then perhaps a perma-ban is necessary as a last resort. But not for simply posting in the wrong place, I am talking about deliberately ruining the forum experience for others.
I don't see a need to insult anyone though, just making that clear (not that anyone does do that of course) as it will only worsen the problem, guaranteed.
Of course, administrators should oversee these courses of action and make sure there are no abuses. If someone makes a mistake once in a while but mostly follows the rules then it would be incorrect to warn-ban-permaban right off even though his offences are very few and far between, if you get what I mean. Sound judgement is required.
-
Oh my... It's somewhat rare to see this long replies, yet so few replies regarding a war. Since there's too much to be quoted, I'll just stick with something that wasn't paid attention to.
Do not mock other members around the site.
If you need to mock someone, mock me. I can take that. But many of us can't.
And there's a reason why this never pays out: Imagine I was mad at somebody here on the forums, and I would blame you for it. How would it ever satisfy me? What would you reply to the insults I spitted on you instead of the person the situation is actually about? Or moreover, would you even reply AT ALL, so was I just talking myself and it should help me?
It just doesn't work. It never has and never will. And it's actually the reason why machines ought not to take over the human legacy.
But everyone learns from mistakes. You're probably first time moderator so very understandable.
As far as I know, every single moderator and administrator here is a first-timer... Or well, I don't know about Xarwin. So to say, none of them have made everything perfectly.
The bottom line is that I don't want the forum become elitist as many sites have became. I won't become elitist, I hope you guys won't too.
I already tried to talk with you about this, but you just backed off; How fair is it that people can call others elitists but elitists can't call others fanboys? Would you just please explain this instead of ignoring like the last time?
I honestly take feedback and criticsm without looking age, where you're from or how long you've been here. I believe in a society of equality.
Unless you prove it by explaining the previous, that's not really convincing.
-
Oh my... It's somewhat rare to see this long replies, yet so few replies regarding a war. Since there's too much to be quoted, I'll just stick with something that wasn't paid attention to.
Do not mock other members around the site.
If you need to mock someone, mock me. I can take that. But many of us can't.
And there's a reason why this never pays out: Imagine I was mad at somebody here on the forums, and I would blame you for it. How would it ever satisfy me? What would you reply to the insults I spitted on you instead of the person the situation is actually about? Or moreover, would you even reply AT ALL, so was I just talking myself and it should help me?
It just doesn't work. It never has and never will. And it's actually the reason why machines ought not to take over the human legacy.
That sounded like a joke to me, just saying
But everyone learns from mistakes. You're probably first time moderator so very understandable.
As far as I know, every single moderator and administrator here is a first-timer... Or well, I don't know about Xarwin. So to say, none of them have made everything perfectly.
The bottom line is that I don't want the forum become elitist as many sites have became. I won't become elitist, I hope you guys won't too.
I already tried to talk with you about this, but you just backed off; How fair is it that people can call others elitists but elitists can't call others fanboys? Would you just please explain this instead of ignoring like the last time?
Obviously no one should call each other elitist OR fanboy. The reason Aero mentioned fanboy is because that term is being used a lot lately. On the other hand I never saw anyone called elitist until I did it myself right here.
I honestly take feedback and criticsm without looking age, where you're from or how long you've been here. I believe in a society of equality.
Unless you prove it by explaining the previous, that's not really convincing.
Flecky, he has set the stage to make the forum better. It doesn't need explaining, all he has said makes sense and follows the general theme: be friendly, respect each other, act like adults.
Do you really need to be convinced to follow these simple guidelines? I don't think so eh :D
-
Misunderstanding, yes.
I admit I was a little too harsh on Merlon about that, as I was very angry at that moment. And when Merlon said 'done', I never realised he/she had reposted them on the first post and I just thought he/she went into a temper tantrum and deleted all of his/her posts and replaced them with 'edit'. But this was more or less a misunderstanding on my part, so I think there's no injustice here.
Apologies to Merlon and any other person who felt insulted by my words.
Do you really need to be convinced to follow these simple guidelines?
Because he's Flecky.
-
That sounded like a joke to me, just saying
But it wasn't a joke (except for the machine part); I've met others who claim they can take the blames of all others for them. It's just not possible.
Obviously no one should call each other elitist OR fanboy. The reason Aero mentioned fanboy is because that term is being used a lot lately. On the other hand I never saw anyone called elitist until I did it myself right here.
I'm looking at it on a long term; It has happened in the past. A lot less than calling people fanboys, but it has.
Flecky, he has set the stage to make the forum better. It doesn't need explaining, all he has said makes sense and follows the general theme: be friendly, respect each other, act like adults.
Do you really need to be convinced to follow these simple guidelines? I don't think so eh :D
Yes. And as long as it's possible and legit, I'll try to spread the act so that there'd be some light during these harsh times. I don't know about you, but I've faced too much PR and I simply can't accept it anymore, just like you couldn't accept Doom's responses in the bug masterthread.
Do you really need to be convinced to follow these simple guidelines?
Because he's Flecky.
Being colorful obligates.
-
First of all, be an adult. Think like an adult and don't start or continue flamewars. I understand most of us are not adults, but at least try to be like one. Be friendly and understand others without looking their age or where they are from. Do not mock other members around the site.
If you need to mock someone, mock me. I can take that. But many of us can't.
You don't need to be a adult to act like one, and you can pretty much act like a little kid being an adult.
From what i know, ages and nationalities aren't problems. There are people that thinks the "dramatic ones" are girls, and this is a preconception, but we know that it's nothing but people joking around.
It's a forum! Follow the rules! Besides that you don't have to pleasure anyone else. If someone call you a fanboy...sorry for you, but people already called me things way worse than this(not in this forum). If you feel this hurt just because of this, it's just ridiculous...who the heck cares for what someone from the other side of the world is thinking about you?
People are different, we have to remember that. That is why we should understand our differences. Especially as this is global forum, anyone can join from from anywhere. It's better to be careful with your words than be hasty.
Yeah, i don't want a third world war to start here on the forum. But this is no less than the truth, if it's within the rules, you can do, it's common sense. Of course, it's no excuse for hurting anyone's feelings. It's much better to be a nice guy, even if you're as idiot as...me. If you try to act like a jerk, you'll be a true idiot though.
What i really tried to say is that you have no reason to acts friendly towards someone, so people have to be strong, if something simple as a insult makes someone that unhappy, i must say that he/she needs some training. We are in our own little world. Should I remember what happens outside here? It wouldn't be wrong to call this some child's play. And act all sad about this wouldn't make you the same as a kid that lost the game?
Well the fact is that all people here like drama(yes, EVERYONE in the forum, no exceptions), yet the drama often loses control and then these long and boring discussions are made. Well, i know that this situation is pretty much resolved now, but...may i count the number of days between this problem and the next one ;D?
Do you really need to be convinced to follow these simple guidelines?
Because he's Flecky.
Being colorful obligates.
:D
-
Thank you Yggdrasill, the forum appreciates it.
Shin, I don't know what kind of a society you live in (lol) but I can assure you that people deserve friendliness and respect, and that applies to real life as well as on forums etc.
If you do not show friendliness and respect then you deserve to be (if it's a forum) banned, and that is what happens on all successful forums I can assure you. luckily most people are by nature inclined to be friendly and respectful.
Being mature enough to deal with insults is another matter, and you are right people should be able to deal with it. But that doesn't mean it's OK to do whatever you like and expect others to deal with it. If that's your idea of a forum then thank God you aren't an administrator :D
-
I can see that a lot of the stuff you said were due to that misunderstanding there, but then when he cleared it up right at the end, you didn't apologize at all.
That was the main problem
After you realise you misunderstood and realise how your actions are being portrayed now that you know what has happened, it would have been right to apologize then, not simply:
Oops, I didn't see that. Well that is very nice of you to do so.
Anyway about this whole arguement I think we should end it here. Let bygone be bygone okay?
He has been wronged and at this point after you realise it, just ending it off like that is an injustice, and this is what led to me using the word "disgusting".
So at the very least, I think you owe Merlon a public apology to his name. He may not see it but at least other people will know that there is justice on these Forums.
Woah woah hold on just a minute right here. I am not the one who insulted Merlon directly and I am also not the one who insulted him again and called him a 'fanboy'. I admitted that I did insult him in my post directed at CroCo, but it only accounted for, what, 10% of the total amount of insult he took here. Not to mention I am not supposed to be the one who ends the arguement, who started it shall ended it. Not because I am apologetic and you can push it too far like that. Where is the justice in forcing one who are only partially responsible for an issue to take all the shame to himself?
Yggy and I already apologized and I think it is enough on our part.
-
And there's a reason why this never pays out: Imagine I was mad at somebody here on the forums, and I would blame you for it. How would it ever satisfy me? What would you reply to the insults I spitted on you instead of the person the situation is actually about? Or moreover, would you even reply AT ALL, so was I just talking myself and it should help me?
If you're mad to someone you don't need to start blaming. You can talk over.
Anyway, I just tried to be a martyr.
I already tried to talk with you about this, but you just backed off; How fair is it that people can call others elitists but elitists can't call others fanboys? Would you just please explain this instead of ignoring like the last time?
Goes both ways. Stop being elitist and fanboy. Let's all just be what we really are: members of the forum.
You don't need to be a adult to act like one, and you can pretty much act like a little kid being an adult.
From what i know, ages and nationalities aren't problems. There are people that thinks the "dramatic ones" are girls, and this is a preconception, but we know that it's nothing but people joking around.
I don't believe in that. Yes some people can be drama queens, but some really are hurt easier than others.
-
I can see that a lot of the stuff you said were due to that misunderstanding there, but then when he cleared it up right at the end, you didn't apologize at all.
That was the main problem
After you realise you misunderstood and realise how your actions are being portrayed now that you know what has happened, it would have been right to apologize then, not simply:
Oops, I didn't see that. Well that is very nice of you to do so.
Anyway about this whole arguement I think we should end it here. Let bygone be bygone okay?
He has been wronged and at this point after you realise it, just ending it off like that is an injustice, and this is what led to me using the word "disgusting".
So at the very least, I think you owe Merlon a public apology to his name. He may not see it but at least other people will know that there is justice on these Forums.
Woah woah hold on just a minute right here. I am not the one who insulted Merlon directly and I am also not the one who insulted him again and called him a 'fanboy'. I admitted that I did insult him in my post directed at CroCo, but it only accounted for, what, 10% of the total amount of insult he took here. Not to mention I am not supposed to be the one who ends the arguement, who started it shall ended it. Not because I am apologetic and you can push it too far like that. Where is the justice in forcing one who are only partially responsible for an issue to take all the shame to himself?
Yggy and I already apologized and I think it is enough on our part.
Agreed that you weren't the one insulting him the most, but the "problem" wasn't the insulting. Insulting is a light matter to be perfectly honest, it shows that the person (doing the insults) is uneducated and immature. There were much bigger problems going on.
Well for one thing not once did you agree or indicate that he had been wronged or that Yggy was to blame. How can you end the argument with that injustice raging in the background? To attempt to end it means that you think everything has been settled. Well if Yggy tried to end it like that, it would have been even worse!
Anyway what you did that required apologizing to Merlon directly is
1. Supporting Yggy even though he was wrong (seriously, even if Yggy at one point wanted to apologize, there is very little chance he would - because after reading your posts and your support, now if he does then he is shaming you after you spoke so strongly in his favour). Supporting him means you agree with what he is saying, which means you condone the insults he meted out.
2. Attacking the one guy who actually spoke out against the injustice (I can assure you any insults spoken to him, Merlon would have felt it), although to simplify things I won't bother breaking down your post against Croco and point out the multiple issues atm.
3. Calling them fanboys and saying that they are the ones who want a war, acting like you and Yggy are the ones being attacked when it is completely the opposite.
4. Ignoring Yggys insults against Merlon, not only that but acting as if they were not insults, as if it was just a light matter. I said above that insults weren't the problem, but if you insult someone then it needs to be clear that that is the case - if someone comes up and says "that isn't even an insult" then it suddenly MAKES it a problem.
5. Belittling Merlons contribution and hard work, comparing it to Yggys massive contribution (ie elitism, making him feel unwanted and that he is wasting his time here)
6. After realising your misunderstanding (ie realising that Merlon was innocent), not apologizing to him or speaking on his behalf or joining his side, but rather ignoring all the injustice and ending it as if everything is fair and square.
If you are innocent of any of this feel free to point out how, anyhow I think that stuff deserves a direct apology to Merlon, not just apologizing for your actions in the incident, and then posting that you were only about 10% of the problem. Truth be told, IMO Yggy's actions were definitely bad, but not as bad as what you did.
-
Your post is indeed true. I apologize to Merlon for what I did in the Bug Masterthread and hope he will forgive me.
1. Supporting Yggy even though he was wrong (seriously, even if Yggy at one point wanted to apologize, there is very little chance he would - because after reading your posts and your support, now if he does then he is shaming you after you spoke so strongly in his favour). Supporting him means you agree with what he is saying, which means you condone the insults he meted out.
Agreed. I was wrong about this.
2. Attacking the one guy who actually spoke out against the injustice (I can assure you any insults spoken to him, Merlon would have felt it), although to simplify things I won't bother breaking down your post against Croco and point out the multiple issues atm.
3. Calling them fanboys and saying that they are the ones who want a war, acting like you and Yggy are the ones being attacked when it is completely the opposite.
To quote Croco:
If I were at Merlon's place I also would have felt offended, he just did a great job reporting a great deal of bugs and instead of thanking him, all you do is to bark at him.
How dramatic.
He clearly used an offensive word here. It is obviously a declaration of war from him. Seeing a friend being offended like that and not saying anything? Not my motto at all.
4. Ignoring Yggys insults against Merlon, not only that but acting as if they were not insults, as if it was just a light matter. I said above that insults weren't the problem, but if you insult someone then it needs to be clear that that is the case - if someone comes up and says "that isn't even an insult" then it suddenly MAKES it a problem.
5. Belittling Merlons contribution and hard work, comparing it to Yggys massive contribution (ie elitism, making him feel unwanted and that he is wasting his time here)
6. After realising your misunderstanding (ie realising that Merlon was innocent), not apologizing to him or speaking on his behalf or joining his side, but rather ignoring all the injustice and ending it as if everything is fair and square.
Agreed. I was also wrong here.
If you are innocent of any of this feel free to point out how, anyhow I think that stuff deserves a direct apology to Merlon, not just apologizing for your actions in the incident, and then posting that you were only about 10% of the problem. Truth be told, IMO Yggy's actions were definitely bad, but not as bad as what you did.
I will let you figure out yourself why I bold that part. No offense but it seems really personal to me.
And one more thing, please don't put the 'bad guy' label on my back automatically. A few minutes ago a member joined the chat and immediately logged out when he saw me there. Kind of a 'follow the crowd' thing because I was argueing with people here. It was very rude tbh. I am still friendly to others. There is no need to be so impolite like that.
-
Sorry if I offended, I tried my best to only state the facts.
The bit that you left bold, I believe is a fact (psychologists will tell you about direct insults vs other stuff) but it sounds too much like opinion so I left it as "IMO" for your sake.
All you need to do is apologize (and you have, thank you), everyone makes mistakes, and anyone with sense will know that you regret your actions and will not judge you. If after your sincere apology anyone thinks that you are a "bad guy" then IMO they are too immature for you to even care about/think about/notice them.
Do the right thing and damn the consequences! That's my motto :D
Of course, you gotta make sure it is the right thing you are doing first..
-
If you're mad to someone you don't need to start blaming. You can talk over.
Whilst waiting for a new war.
Goes both ways. Stop being elitist and fanboy. Let's all just be what we really are: members of the forum.
Thank you for believing in the act of convincing.
Do the right thing and damn the consequences! That's my motto :D
Isn't that what everyone here has been doing? What's right for someone is just the key that varies.
-
I'm satisfied with Doomlord and Yggdrasill!
But Flecky, what's wrong?
Just tell us.
-
Hey , by far this is the friendliest discussion I've ever saw in my entire life.
We have to understand something people , it matters not what we do , but if we wanted to do it.There are the so-called fanboys(I wish you never had to come up with that name fleck) who basicly troll in a way then either leave and come back arguing , or argue right after the trolling.However you should not name a member"fanboy" to someone who made a mistake , but to somewhone who WANTED to troll.For example there are guys that let's say , start a quote pyramid on a masterthread.When he does that he either thinks:
"Haha me and this guy have so much in common I love talking to him!"
or
"Hehe I will spam this site untill it bleeds"
But some of the times , an "elite" sentences the first case.The criminal dosen't have time to apologize when the elite starts arguing with him , calling him names , school him and all that kind of crap.So what do the guy thinks?Something like "**** this site and its mods , im out!".
Usually when the second case is spotted , the criminal walks away , and comes back after an ammout of time (ppl forget him) so he can troll again.
The same things goes with the members that have some time in their back and helped the site.There are some who are like:
"GOD , I hope no one will troll today so it will be clean for the rest of us"
but some are like
"I can't wait to school another fanboy"
Doomlord and flecky , you are certainly the second case.I recall chatting with doomlord one day , and he was like "Duuude , I soo schooled that fanboy man , I feel alive!"(exagerating ofc).I do not want to insult anyone , as I am a friend with both of you , but you have to stop thinking like that.We all like drama , we all like beeing a part of it , especially online where there are no real flashbacks.Even aero said he liked drama on forums(he will tell you the same thing , but here's a quote)
Actually I love drama in forums but this is a bit different thing when I'm the leader(need to keep things controlled).
I don't know what happend with doomlord and those 2 guys but I see he is sorry.So please guys do not overdo anything.
-
But Flecky, what's wrong?
Naw? If it's about the war, well, obviously there'll be more... I'd say we have had 3 forum wars in total, so it's very likely that there'll be more.
There are the so-called fanboys(I wish you never had to come up with that name fleck)
My memory doesn't serve well enough to remember who "came up" with the word (could've been me but can't remember), I only described what it means (or at least that's how Doom made it look like).
We all like drama , we all like beeing a part of it , especially online where there are no real flashbacks.Even aero said he liked drama on forums(he will tell you the same thing , but here's a quote)
Actually I love drama in forums but this is a bit different thing when I'm the leader(need to keep things controlled).
How people react to and create drama tells others partly what they're like. It can i.e. tell you how well or horribly a person reacts to negative feedback, assuming the feedback is justifiable.