Author Topic: Be friendly  (Read 1913 times)

hamza_tm

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Re: Be friendly
« Reply #15 on: September 04, 2012, 08:34:42 am »
Okay thanks for enlightening me. Then again it seems there have been some misunderstanding here:

Quote
Is that the right course of action? Don't defend someone against injustice, but rather tell them off and in doing so encourage the bad actions of Yggdrasill?
First I said that because I didn't know Merlon modified his first post. He simply said 'Done' and I'm sure that 90% of people at that moment will think that he simply deleted all his reports and replaced them with 'edit'. It is completely a lack of information here. About the part where I 'told him off' and 'didn't protect him', I did that because I thought he deleted all of his posts just because of Yggy's words so I need to calm him down first before reasoning with him. Jumping at Yggy like what CroCo did there isn't my way of handling things. And I believe no injustice is made as this was more or less a misunderstanding on my part.

About the next part I agree that I did behave immaturely, but then again it is a biased view of the situation on my part.

That being said, I publicly apologize to anyone involved in the 'Bug Masterthread' incident and from now on I won't use the term 'fanboy' anymore. However there is still one final thing, if the new members don't follow the rules and ignore my warnings, I will have no choice but to dish out some other punishments instead.

I can see that a lot of the stuff you said were due to that misunderstanding there, but then when he cleared it up right at the end, you didn't apologize at all.

That was the main problem

After you realise you misunderstood and realise how your actions are being portrayed now that you know what has happened, it would have been right to apologize then, not simply:

Quote
Oops, I didn't see that. Well that is very nice of you to do so.

Anyway about this whole arguement I think we should end it here. Let bygone be bygone okay?

He has been wronged and at this point after you realise it, just ending it off like that is an injustice, and this is what led to me using the word "disgusting".

So at the very least, I think you owe Merlon a public apology to his name. He may not see it but at least other people will know that there is justice on these Forums.

As for new members not following the rules, then definitely there are set procedures that you must observe as moderators. You should warn first and make sure they understand, lead it into a temporary ban if they don't really bother about the rules and think you won't do anything, and only if the culprit deliberately and repeatedly doesn't take heed after that then perhaps a perma-ban is necessary as a last resort. But not for simply posting in the wrong place, I am talking about deliberately ruining the forum experience for others.

I don't see a need to insult anyone though, just making that clear (not that anyone does do that of course) as it will only worsen the problem, guaranteed.

Of course, administrators should oversee these courses of action and make sure there are no abuses. If someone makes a mistake once in a while but mostly follows the rules then it would be incorrect to warn-ban-permaban right off even though his offences are very few and far between, if you get what I mean. Sound judgement is required.

Flecky

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Re: Be friendly
« Reply #16 on: September 04, 2012, 08:53:50 am »
Oh my... It's somewhat rare to see this long replies, yet so few replies regarding a war. Since there's too much to be quoted, I'll just stick with something that wasn't paid attention to.

Do not mock other members around the site.

If you need to mock someone, mock me. I can take that. But many of us can't.

And there's a reason why this never pays out: Imagine I was mad at somebody here on the forums, and I would blame you for it. How would it ever satisfy me? What would you reply to the insults I spitted on you instead of the person the situation is actually about? Or moreover, would you even reply AT ALL, so was I just talking myself and it should help me?

It just doesn't work. It never has and never will. And it's actually the reason why machines ought not to take over the human legacy.

But everyone learns from mistakes. You're probably first time moderator so very understandable.

As far as I know, every single moderator and administrator here is a first-timer... Or well, I don't know about Xarwin. So to say, none of them have made everything perfectly.

The bottom line is that I don't want the forum become elitist as many sites have became. I won't become elitist, I hope you guys won't too.

I already tried to talk with you about this, but you just backed off; How fair is it that people can call others elitists but elitists can't call others fanboys? Would you just please explain this instead of ignoring like the last time?

I honestly take feedback and criticsm without looking age, where you're from or how long you've been here. I believe in a society of equality.

Unless you prove it by explaining the previous, that's not really convincing.

hamza_tm

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Re: Be friendly
« Reply #17 on: September 04, 2012, 09:05:30 am »
Oh my... It's somewhat rare to see this long replies, yet so few replies regarding a war. Since there's too much to be quoted, I'll just stick with something that wasn't paid attention to.

Do not mock other members around the site.

If you need to mock someone, mock me. I can take that. But many of us can't.

And there's a reason why this never pays out: Imagine I was mad at somebody here on the forums, and I would blame you for it. How would it ever satisfy me? What would you reply to the insults I spitted on you instead of the person the situation is actually about? Or moreover, would you even reply AT ALL, so was I just talking myself and it should help me?

It just doesn't work. It never has and never will. And it's actually the reason why machines ought not to take over the human legacy.

That sounded like a joke to me, just saying
Quote
But everyone learns from mistakes. You're probably first time moderator so very understandable.

As far as I know, every single moderator and administrator here is a first-timer... Or well, I don't know about Xarwin. So to say, none of them have made everything perfectly.

The bottom line is that I don't want the forum become elitist as many sites have became. I won't become elitist, I hope you guys won't too.

I already tried to talk with you about this, but you just backed off; How fair is it that people can call others elitists but elitists can't call others fanboys? Would you just please explain this instead of ignoring like the last time?

Obviously no one should call each other elitist OR fanboy. The reason Aero mentioned fanboy is because that term is being used a lot lately. On the other hand I never saw anyone called elitist until I did it myself right here.

Quote
I honestly take feedback and criticsm without looking age, where you're from or how long you've been here. I believe in a society of equality.

Unless you prove it by explaining the previous, that's not really convincing.

Flecky, he has set the stage to make the forum better. It doesn't need explaining, all he has said makes sense and follows the general theme: be friendly, respect each other, act like adults.

Do you really need to be convinced to follow these simple guidelines? I don't think so eh :D

Pourquoi

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Re: Be friendly
« Reply #18 on: September 04, 2012, 10:21:46 am »
Misunderstanding, yes.
I admit I was a little too harsh on Merlon about that, as I was very angry at that moment. And when Merlon said 'done', I never realised he/she had reposted them on the first post and I just thought he/she went into a temper tantrum and deleted all of his/her posts and replaced them with 'edit'. But this was more or less a misunderstanding on my part, so I think there's no injustice here.
Apologies to Merlon and any other person who felt insulted by my words.
Quote
Do you really need to be convinced to follow these simple guidelines?
Because he's Flecky.
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The shadows lengthen
In Carcosa.

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Songs that the Hyades shall sing,
Where flap the tatters of the King,
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Flecky

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Re: Be friendly
« Reply #19 on: September 04, 2012, 10:24:37 am »
That sounded like a joke to me, just saying

But it wasn't a joke (except for the machine part); I've met others who claim they can take the blames of all others for them. It's just not possible.

Obviously no one should call each other elitist OR fanboy. The reason Aero mentioned fanboy is because that term is being used a lot lately. On the other hand I never saw anyone called elitist until I did it myself right here.

I'm looking at it on a long term; It has happened in the past. A lot less than calling people fanboys, but it has.

Flecky, he has set the stage to make the forum better. It doesn't need explaining, all he has said makes sense and follows the general theme: be friendly, respect each other, act like adults.

Do you really need to be convinced to follow these simple guidelines? I don't think so eh :D

Yes. And as long as it's possible and legit, I'll try to spread the act so that there'd be some light during these harsh times. I don't know about you, but I've faced too much PR and I simply can't accept it anymore, just like you couldn't accept Doom's responses in the bug masterthread.

Quote
Do you really need to be convinced to follow these simple guidelines?
Because he's Flecky.

Being colorful obligates.

Shinokyofu

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Re: Be friendly
« Reply #20 on: September 04, 2012, 11:36:34 am »
First of all, be an adult. Think like an adult and don't start or continue flamewars. I understand most of us are not adults, but at least try to be like one. Be friendly and understand others without looking their age or where they are from. Do not mock other members around the site.

If you need to mock someone, mock me. I can take that. But many of us can't.

You don't need to be a adult to act like one, and you can pretty much act like a little kid being an adult.
From what i know, ages and nationalities aren't problems. There are people that thinks the "dramatic ones" are girls, and this is a preconception, but we know that it's nothing but people joking around.

Quote from: Shinokyofu
It's a forum! Follow the rules! Besides that you don't have to pleasure anyone else. If someone call you a fanboy...sorry for you, but people already called me things way worse than this(not in this forum). If you feel this hurt just because of this, it's just ridiculous...who the heck cares for what someone from the other side of the world is thinking about you?

People are different, we have to remember that. That is why we should understand our differences. Especially as this is global forum, anyone can join from from anywhere. It's better to be careful with your words than be hasty.

Yeah, i don't want a third world war to start here on the forum. But this is no less than the truth, if it's within the rules, you can do, it's common sense. Of course, it's no excuse for hurting anyone's feelings. It's much better to be a nice guy, even if you're as idiot as...me. If you try to act like a jerk, you'll be a true idiot though.

What i really tried to say is that you have no reason to acts friendly towards someone, so people have to be strong, if something simple as a insult makes someone that unhappy, i must say that he/she needs some training. We are in our own little world. Should I remember what happens outside here? It wouldn't be wrong to call this some child's play. And act all sad about this wouldn't make you the same as a kid that lost the game?

Well the fact is that all people here like drama(yes, EVERYONE in the forum, no exceptions), yet the drama often loses control and then these long and boring discussions are made. Well, i know that this situation is pretty much resolved now, but...may i count the number of days between this problem and the next one ;D?

Quote
Do you really need to be convinced to follow these simple guidelines?
Because he's Flecky.

Being colorful obligates.

 :D
« Last Edit: September 04, 2012, 11:39:11 am by Shinokyofu »
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hamza_tm

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Re: Be friendly
« Reply #21 on: September 04, 2012, 04:42:11 pm »
Thank you Yggdrasill, the forum appreciates it.

Shin, I don't know what kind of a society you live in (lol) but I can assure you that people deserve friendliness and respect, and that applies to real life as well as on forums etc.

If you do not show friendliness and respect then you deserve to be (if it's a forum) banned, and that is what happens on all successful forums I can assure you. luckily most people are by nature inclined to be friendly and respectful.

Being mature enough to deal with insults is another matter, and you are right people should be able to deal with it. But that doesn't mean it's OK to do whatever you like and expect others to deal with it. If that's your idea of a forum then thank God you aren't an administrator :D

Doomlord

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Re: Be friendly
« Reply #22 on: September 04, 2012, 05:37:40 pm »
I can see that a lot of the stuff you said were due to that misunderstanding there, but then when he cleared it up right at the end, you didn't apologize at all.

That was the main problem

After you realise you misunderstood and realise how your actions are being portrayed now that you know what has happened, it would have been right to apologize then, not simply:

Quote
Oops, I didn't see that. Well that is very nice of you to do so.

Anyway about this whole arguement I think we should end it here. Let bygone be bygone okay?

He has been wronged and at this point after you realise it, just ending it off like that is an injustice, and this is what led to me using the word "disgusting".

So at the very least, I think you owe Merlon a public apology to his name. He may not see it but at least other people will know that there is justice on these Forums.
Woah woah hold on just a minute right here. I am not the one who insulted Merlon directly and I am also not the one who insulted him again and called him a 'fanboy'. I admitted that I did insult him in my post directed at CroCo, but it only accounted for, what, 10% of the total amount of insult he took here. Not to mention I am not supposed to be the one who ends the arguement, who started it shall ended it. Not because I am apologetic and you can push it too far like that. Where is the justice in forcing one who are only partially responsible for an issue to take all the shame to himself?

Yggy and I already apologized and I think it is enough on our part.
« Last Edit: September 04, 2012, 05:40:38 pm by Doomlord »

Aeroblyctos

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Re: Be friendly
« Reply #23 on: September 05, 2012, 01:31:03 am »
Quote from: Flecky
And there's a reason why this never pays out: Imagine I was mad at somebody here on the forums, and I would blame you for it. How would it ever satisfy me? What would you reply to the insults I spitted on you instead of the person the situation is actually about? Or moreover, would you even reply AT ALL, so was I just talking myself and it should help me?

If you're mad to someone you don't need to start blaming. You can talk over.

Anyway, I just tried to be a martyr.

Quote from: Flecky
I already tried to talk with you about this, but you just backed off; How fair is it that people can call others elitists but elitists can't call others fanboys? Would you just please explain this instead of ignoring like the last time?

Goes both ways. Stop being elitist and fanboy. Let's all just be what we really are: members of the forum.

Quote from: Shinokyofu
You don't need to be a adult to act like one, and you can pretty much act like a little kid being an adult.
From what i know, ages and nationalities aren't problems. There are people that thinks the "dramatic ones" are girls, and this is a preconception, but we know that it's nothing but people joking around.

I don't believe in that. Yes some people can be drama queens, but some really are hurt easier than others.

hamza_tm

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Re: Be friendly
« Reply #24 on: September 05, 2012, 05:01:10 am »
I can see that a lot of the stuff you said were due to that misunderstanding there, but then when he cleared it up right at the end, you didn't apologize at all.

That was the main problem

After you realise you misunderstood and realise how your actions are being portrayed now that you know what has happened, it would have been right to apologize then, not simply:

Quote
Oops, I didn't see that. Well that is very nice of you to do so.

Anyway about this whole arguement I think we should end it here. Let bygone be bygone okay?

He has been wronged and at this point after you realise it, just ending it off like that is an injustice, and this is what led to me using the word "disgusting".

So at the very least, I think you owe Merlon a public apology to his name. He may not see it but at least other people will know that there is justice on these Forums.
Woah woah hold on just a minute right here. I am not the one who insulted Merlon directly and I am also not the one who insulted him again and called him a 'fanboy'. I admitted that I did insult him in my post directed at CroCo, but it only accounted for, what, 10% of the total amount of insult he took here. Not to mention I am not supposed to be the one who ends the arguement, who started it shall ended it. Not because I am apologetic and you can push it too far like that. Where is the justice in forcing one who are only partially responsible for an issue to take all the shame to himself?

Yggy and I already apologized and I think it is enough on our part.

Agreed that you weren't the one insulting him the most, but the "problem" wasn't the insulting. Insulting is a light matter to be perfectly honest, it shows that the person (doing the insults) is uneducated and immature. There were much bigger problems going on.

Well for one thing not once did you agree or indicate that he had been wronged or that Yggy was to blame. How can you end the argument with that injustice raging in the background? To attempt to end it means that you think everything has been settled. Well if Yggy tried to end it like that, it would have been even worse!

Anyway what you did that required apologizing to Merlon directly is
1. Supporting Yggy even though he was wrong (seriously, even if Yggy at one point wanted to apologize, there is very little chance he would - because after reading your posts and your support, now if he does then he is shaming you after you spoke so strongly in his favour). Supporting him means you agree with what he is saying, which means you condone the insults he meted out.
2. Attacking the one guy who actually spoke out against the injustice (I can assure you any insults spoken to him, Merlon would have felt it), although to simplify things I won't bother breaking down your post against Croco and point out the multiple issues atm.
3. Calling them fanboys and saying that they are the ones who want a war, acting like you and Yggy are the ones being attacked when it is completely the opposite.
4. Ignoring Yggys insults against Merlon, not only that but acting as if they were not insults, as if it was just a light matter. I said above that insults weren't the problem, but if you insult someone then it needs to be clear that that is the case - if someone comes up and says "that isn't even an insult" then it suddenly MAKES it a problem.
5. Belittling Merlons contribution and hard work, comparing it to Yggys massive contribution (ie elitism, making him feel unwanted and that he is wasting his time here)
6. After realising your misunderstanding (ie realising that Merlon was innocent), not apologizing to him or speaking on his behalf or joining his side, but rather ignoring all the injustice and ending it as if everything is fair and square.

If you are innocent of any of this feel free to point out how, anyhow I think that stuff deserves a direct apology to Merlon, not just apologizing for your actions in the incident, and then posting that you were only about 10% of the problem. Truth be told, IMO Yggy's actions were definitely bad, but not as bad as what you did.

Doomlord

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Re: Be friendly
« Reply #25 on: September 05, 2012, 05:23:26 am »
Your post is indeed true. I apologize to Merlon for what I did in the Bug Masterthread and hope he will forgive me.

1. Supporting Yggy even though he was wrong (seriously, even if Yggy at one point wanted to apologize, there is very little chance he would - because after reading your posts and your support, now if he does then he is shaming you after you spoke so strongly in his favour). Supporting him means you agree with what he is saying, which means you condone the insults he meted out.
Agreed. I was wrong about this.

2. Attacking the one guy who actually spoke out against the injustice (I can assure you any insults spoken to him, Merlon would have felt it), although to simplify things I won't bother breaking down your post against Croco and point out the multiple issues atm.
3. Calling them fanboys and saying that they are the ones who want a war, acting like you and Yggy are the ones being attacked when it is completely the opposite.
To quote Croco:
Quote from: CroCo
If I were at Merlon's place I also would have felt offended, he just did a great job reporting a great deal of bugs and instead of thanking him, all you do is to bark at him.

How dramatic.
He clearly used an offensive word here. It is obviously a declaration of war from him. Seeing a friend being offended like that and not saying anything? Not my motto at all.

4. Ignoring Yggys insults against Merlon, not only that but acting as if they were not insults, as if it was just a light matter. I said above that insults weren't the problem, but if you insult someone then it needs to be clear that that is the case - if someone comes up and says "that isn't even an insult" then it suddenly MAKES it a problem.
5. Belittling Merlons contribution and hard work, comparing it to Yggys massive contribution (ie elitism, making him feel unwanted and that he is wasting his time here)
6. After realising your misunderstanding (ie realising that Merlon was innocent), not apologizing to him or speaking on his behalf or joining his side, but rather ignoring all the injustice and ending it as if everything is fair and square.
Agreed. I was also wrong here.

If you are innocent of any of this feel free to point out how, anyhow I think that stuff deserves a direct apology to Merlon, not just apologizing for your actions in the incident, and then posting that you were only about 10% of the problem. Truth be told, IMO Yggy's actions were definitely bad, but not as bad as what you did.
I will let you figure out yourself why I bold that part. No offense but it seems really personal to me.

And one more thing, please don't put the 'bad guy' label on my back automatically. A few minutes ago a member joined the chat and immediately logged out when he saw me there. Kind of a 'follow the crowd' thing because I was argueing with people here. It was very rude tbh. I am still friendly to others. There is no need to be so impolite like that.
« Last Edit: September 05, 2012, 05:45:16 am by Doomlord »

hamza_tm

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Re: Be friendly
« Reply #26 on: September 05, 2012, 06:55:58 am »
Sorry if I offended, I tried my best to only state the facts.

The bit that you left bold, I believe is a fact (psychologists will tell you about direct insults vs other stuff) but it sounds too much like opinion so I left it as "IMO" for your sake.

All you need to do is apologize (and you have, thank you), everyone makes mistakes, and anyone with sense will know that you regret your actions and will not judge you. If after your sincere apology anyone thinks that you are a "bad guy" then IMO they are too immature for you to even care about/think about/notice them.

Do the right thing and damn the consequences! That's my motto :D

Of course, you gotta make sure it is the right thing you are doing first..

Flecky

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Re: Be friendly
« Reply #27 on: September 05, 2012, 07:09:08 am »
If you're mad to someone you don't need to start blaming. You can talk over.

Whilst waiting for a new war.

Goes both ways. Stop being elitist and fanboy. Let's all just be what we really are: members of the forum.

Thank you for believing in the act of convincing.

Do the right thing and damn the consequences! That's my motto :D

Isn't that what everyone here has been doing? What's right for someone is just the key that varies.

Aeroblyctos

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Re: Be friendly
« Reply #28 on: September 07, 2012, 03:15:59 am »
I'm satisfied with Doomlord and Yggdrasill!

But Flecky, what's wrong?

Just tell us.

Blackdoom59

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Re: Be friendly
« Reply #29 on: September 07, 2012, 07:46:11 am »
Hey , by far this is the friendliest discussion I've ever saw in my entire life.

We have to understand something people , it matters not what we do , but if we wanted to do it.There are the so-called fanboys(I wish you never had to come up with that name fleck) who basicly troll in a way then either leave and come back arguing , or argue right after the trolling.However you should not name a member"fanboy" to someone who made a mistake , but to somewhone who WANTED to troll.For example there are guys that let's say , start a quote pyramid on a masterthread.When he does that he either thinks:

"Haha me and this guy have so much in common I love talking to him!"
or
"Hehe I will spam this site untill it bleeds"

But some of the times , an "elite" sentences the first case.The criminal dosen't have time to apologize when the elite starts arguing with him , calling him names , school him and all that kind of crap.So what do the guy thinks?Something like "**** this site and its mods , im out!".

Usually when the second case is spotted , the criminal walks away , and comes back after an ammout of time (ppl forget him) so he can troll again.


The same things goes with the members that have some time in their back and helped the site.There are some who are like:

"GOD , I hope no one will troll today so it will be clean for the rest of us"
but some are like
"I can't wait to school another fanboy"

Doomlord and flecky , you are certainly the second case.I recall chatting with doomlord one day , and he  was like "Duuude , I soo schooled that fanboy man , I feel alive!"(exagerating ofc).I do not want to insult anyone , as I am a friend with both of you  , but you have to stop thinking like that.We all like drama , we all like beeing a part of it , especially online where there are no real flashbacks.Even aero said he liked drama on forums(he will tell you the same thing , but here's a quote)

Actually I love drama in forums but this is a bit different thing when I'm the leader(need to keep things controlled).


I don't know what happend with doomlord and those 2 guys but I see he is sorry.So please guys do not overdo anything.