Author Topic: What if?  (Read 1361 times)

Blackdoom59

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What if?
« on: May 21, 2013, 06:55:58 am »
With the birth of galeoth's sanctuary , multiple members came to talk elegantly about stuff.So I am creating a new topic - What if?

In here i will ask a what if question every now and  then about what would have happened if ____________________ , trought history.If you wish to reply make sure you know what I'm actually asking , and quote the question when you do so.

First question:What if The United States never joined WW2(world war 2) ,would Nazi germany succed or fail?Argument your answer.

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Aeroblyctos

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Re: What if?
« Reply #1 on: May 21, 2013, 09:25:51 am »
USA just a minor part of the war in Europe. Russians would've won anyway.

Shinokyofu

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Re: What if?
« Reply #2 on: May 21, 2013, 11:36:33 am »
More than in the WW2, I think they were much more important in WW1's result.

That said...
USA just a minor part of the war in Europe. Russians would've won anyway.

I have to disagree pretty much all of your answer, Aero :D.

Firstly, Russia was still not THAT strong, the problem is that it's something near impossible to go through Russia without dying in the way because of the cold(and they had a very good strategy) :P. If Russia were actually attacking the Nazi people, it would have another result.

Secondly, without USA, the Japan would dominate the war in that area and, let's not forget, Japan was so strong that it actually could annoy USA. The Hiroshima Rose is the result :P. Japan was almost 100% focused on the USA, so without the USA, Japan would help Germany in Europe. And THAT would be OP.

So, I don't know if the Nazi would succed, but it would have a very good chance to.
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Blackdoom59

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Re: What if?
« Reply #3 on: May 21, 2013, 12:30:05 pm »
I agree with shino , if the US didn't stopped Japan in the Pacific , Japan would have ended up ruling over all the seas.So even if the russians managed to hold the axis , Japan would have ultimately attacked them from Asia.China would be finnaly forced to join the axis under japan's pressure and after the sudden stop of ressources comming from Russia.

EVEN IF the Russia wouldn't have been completely conquered , the tirth reich would have succeded in invading UK , from witch they could pinpoint and strike trought the world.

USA just a minor part of the war in Europe. Russians would've won anyway.

D-Day was the event that managed to take  Germany down.Russia would probably have failed without the help of the allies.

Aeroblyctos

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Re: What if?
« Reply #4 on: May 22, 2013, 02:02:09 am »
Firstly, Russia was still not THAT strong, the problem is that it's something near impossible to go through Russia without dying in the way because of the cold(and they had a very good strategy) :P.
When Russian won the attack of the Germany they were strong enough at that point defeat the attacker. And that heppened. I mean, in that front Russian did all the job. No one really helped Russian. Or should I can Soviet Union?

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Firstly, Russia was still not THAT strong, the problem is that it's something near impossible to go through Russia without dying in the way because of the cold(and they had a very good strategy) :P. If Russia were actually attacking the Nazi people, it would have another result.
But they did and they owned Nazi!

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Secondly, without USA, the Japan would dominate the war in that area and, let's not forget, Japan was so strong that it actually could annoy USA. The Hiroshima Rose is the result :P. Japan was almost 100% focused on the USA, so without the USA, Japan would help Germany in Europe. And THAT would be OP.
It would take too many years for Japan to win USA and even if Japan would've won I don't think Japan would've helped Germany much or if not at all. I believe in the end Germany and Japan were enemies to each other. They just had same enemies.

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Russia would probably have failed without the help of the allies.
Indeed, but I believe Russian and Great Britain together with rest of the France could have won Germany in the end. USA was just a minor part here they didn't help that much.
« Last Edit: May 22, 2013, 02:07:24 am by Aeroblyctos »

Shinokyofu

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Re: What if?
« Reply #5 on: May 22, 2013, 11:12:30 am »
Quote
Firstly, Russia was still not THAT strong, the problem is that it's something near impossible to go through Russia without dying in the way because of the cold(and they had a very good strategy) :P. If Russia were actually attacking the Nazi people, it would have another result.
But they did and they owned Nazi!

Russia itself owned the Nazi, not the Russian Army :P. The Nazi made the same mistake as Napoleon(besides the strategy of destroying the cities and villages that the Nazi reached used by Russia) and then they were defeated. Russia was strong inside its frontiers, but just after WW2 they would also get strong (VERY strong) outside.

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Secondly, without USA, the Japan would dominate the war in that area and, let's not forget, Japan was so strong that it actually could annoy USA. The Hiroshima Rose is the result :P. Japan was almost 100% focused on the USA, so without the USA, Japan would help Germany in Europe. And THAT would be OP.
It would take too many years for Japan to win USA and even if Japan would've won I don't think Japan would've helped Germany much or if not at all. I believe in the end Germany and Japan were enemies to each other. They just had same enemies.

Firstly, we're talking about the WW2 without USA :P.

Japan has the limitation of being kind of small and in a terrible area to live or to do anything. If the japanese had the resources of USA(or even other countries such as Brazil), they would easily be the most terrible nation to buy a fight with.

But, without any hypothetical situations, yeah, I agree that Japan will never be as strong as USA, but if you think that the atomic bombs were just to end the war like a boss, you're wrong. The USA feared  Japanese people, especially because they were fearless(kamikaze) and could develop Japan into a powerful country in just some years.

And, yeah, Japan just didn't like Russia and wanted to dominate some strategic areas, so he wasn't exactly all love and fun with Germany. BUT, I ask to you to read again the bold part. Yeah, Russia would get completly owned, and it would be one less enemy to the Nazi that, again, I don't really know if would succed. Oh, and also answers this.

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Russia would probably have failed without the help of the allies.
Indeed, but I believe Russian and Great Britain together with rest of the France could have won Germany in the end. USA was just a minor part here they didn't help that much.

A Russianless and USAless Allies would be SO easily defeated.
« Last Edit: May 22, 2013, 11:15:26 am by Shinokyofu »
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Ancient Mob

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Re: What if?
« Reply #6 on: May 22, 2013, 03:33:51 pm »
With the birth of galeoth's sanctuary , multiple members came to talk elegantly about stuff.So I am creating a new topic - What if?
Is it necessary to ask only questions related to countries or other history topics. Because I don't see benefits of that. Instead u can Ask question related to the chosen ones. Like what if the dart whom phodom rescued. Was not dart & was a clone..? Asking random question from history will only result in tons of arguments..& some chaos may be..! Game related ''what if'' will reveal the possibilities in expansion of storyline. or improvement in current story. & will make players think about the story from various different view points rather then the only story presented by aero ! I think it'll be fun! :D

Shinokyofu

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Re: What if?
« Reply #7 on: May 22, 2013, 08:38:56 pm »
AncientMob - That is a possibility. We can try it, but I'd like to point out two things:
1. The discussion about the last "What If..." didn't end yet...probably(perphaps almost).
2. Though we can talk about TCO too, the Off-Topic Thread is more used to talk about things NOT related to TCO. Besides, this special sub-forum, the Galeoth's Sanctuary, tries to be a little more serious compared with other threads in general. I'm not saying that TCO can't bring a serious conversation, but it could, perphaps, generate chaos (fun and death) and perphaps it would not be something easy to discuss. I mean, a clone of Dart? I can imagine more than 20 hypothesis to explain this (if it happened), yet none are satisfying to me.

Besides, again, this place is for little more serious conversations (although we don't have to be dead cold of course ::)), so try to improve your text just a little, because... I seriously had some problems to understand some parts.

For example:

Instead u can Ask question related to the chosen ones. Like what if the dart whom phodom rescued. Was not dart & was a clone..? Asking random question from history will only result in tons of arguments..& some chaos may be..!

Why a dot? Just why a dot :(?

Is it necessary to ask only questions related to countries or other history topics. Because I don't see benefits of that.

More than "necessary", since historical events are the reason we are here now, and if they were different, our present would be different, I think it's good to think "what if..." about these kinds of things. So, perphaps not necessary, it's just funny. Fun is good, but too much fun can be death too, we have to be careful with that.
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Ancient Mob

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Re: What if?
« Reply #8 on: May 23, 2013, 01:17:25 am »
Quote
AncientMob - That is a possibility. We can try it, but I'd like to point out two things:
1. The discussion about the last "What If..." didn't end yet...probably(perphaps almost).
Yes about that, I request blackdoom to mention a time limit with each question.
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2. Though we can talk about TCO too, the Off-Topic Thread is more used to talk about things NOT related to TCO. Besides, this special sub-forum, the Galeoth's Sanctuary, tries to be a little more serious compared with other threads in general. I'm not saying that TCO can't bring a serious conversation, but it could, perphaps, generate chaos (fun and death) and perphaps it would not be something easy to discuss. I mean, a clone of Dart? I can imagine more than 20 hypothesis to explain this (if it happened), yet none are satisfying to me.
yes you are right, lets just keep off topics away from campaign. I really didn't noticed I am posting in off topic. :-[

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Why a dot? Just why a dot :(?
Sorry i am habitual of using dots, is it wrong..? Anyways i'll try to avoid the unnecessary usage of dots.

Blackdoom59

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Re: What if?
« Reply #9 on: May 23, 2013, 07:13:19 am »
Firstly i'm glad the conversation is started on the right foot.

Ancient Mob , I will eventually ask about the campaign and wc3's storyline's itself , as those are the things ANY memeber of this forum has in common.But that won't happen too soon.Right now most of the questions will be from history.

I think the system of more about you was a made with haste and it ended up not so good.So here's how/when questions will be posted:

IF a question  has answers from at least 2-3 diffrent members , and 3 days have passed since the last member answered , I will ask another one.If 3 days have passed since the last answer and only 1/no members answered , the timeline will restart(3 more days) , and it will keep starting over until there are at least 2 members(other then myself) that answered the question.

Also, not all questions will be about the "war" history.I may post questions about "what if x , was never born(x being someone who changed the world)".I intend to make this topic an interactive one , so any feedback and/or ideas are more then welcome.

Edit:Topic set sticky.

Shinokyofu

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Re: What if?
« Reply #10 on: May 23, 2013, 11:40:45 am »
Quote
Why a dot? Just why a dot :(?
Sorry i am habitual of using dots, is it wrong..? Anyways i'll try to avoid the unnecessary usage of dots.

Sorry, I pointed out the mistake, but I didn't correct it :). You know, to use or not to use dots depends of the sentece's structure, and I won't make you type large sentences with lots of conjuctions and commas(without dots) just because it's cooler or anything like that...

The mistake that you did is the separation of the subject and the verb. I mean, look at your sentence:  "...the dart whom phodom rescued. Was not dart ..." See it? The verb (in this case, the "was") is separeted from the subject (in this case, "the dart whom phodom rescued"). You can't put commas or dots between verbs and their subjects. This is simple wrong.

I hope you understood :D.
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Blackdoom59

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Re: What if?
« Reply #11 on: May 24, 2013, 01:09:36 pm »
Another one:

What if , in ww2(again) , what if The axis powers never attacked Russia?Would the russians attack them instead?Would the other allies manage to win the war?Or would The Axis conquer the allies and leave Russia for last?

I personally think the russians would've invaded axis europe as soon as they could.That's because communism and nazism stand on the opposite sides and the only think the two of them have in common is that they are both at the extreme.The axis could have persued other goals inside and outside Europe.Such as Turkey.I never understood why did Nazi Germany never attacked the turks , who were so close the Greece and Yugoslavia(captured from the start).Sweeden also.Sweeden and Turkey where the only countries in Europe within The axis's reach that remanied neutral.Countries like Spain and Portugal helped indirectly.

But if the russians would assault Europe , I'm prety sure they would have lost.They did lost back when the axis pushed them back to Moskow , and their only salvation was the winter.If DDay came without any casualties from Russia , the forces would finnaly be equal(americans/french/brittish vs germans/italians and the rest of the helpers) , so the outcome is hard to imagine.

Aeroblyctos

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Re: What if?
« Reply #12 on: May 25, 2013, 01:47:46 am »
Sweden helped nazies indirectly. Sweden gave Germany important metals in order to stay out of the war.

Blackdoom59

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Re: What if?
« Reply #13 on: May 25, 2013, 03:50:09 am »
Sweden helped nazies indirectly. Sweden gave Germany important metals in order to stay out of the war.

Yes but Sweeden helped the allies also(espionage and blackmail with the german leaders in Norway , and sending the information to UK and US).And they didn't gave the metals for free.

Aeroblyctos

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Re: What if?
« Reply #14 on: May 25, 2013, 04:21:35 am »
They were smart.