Poll

Should we replace the word 'morality'?

Yes
3 (42.9%)
No
4 (57.1%)

Total Members Voted: 7

Author Topic: Should we replace the word 'morality'?  (Read 2018 times)

Pourquoi

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Should we replace the word 'morality'?
« on: January 16, 2013, 06:28:30 am »
Another subject about which I talked with Aero recently.
I think the word 'morality' does not fit the current concept in the campaign.
Basically, 'morality' means either:
- Recognition of the distinction between good and evil or between right and wrong; respect for and obedience to the rules of right conduct; the mental disposition or characteristic of behaving in a manner intended to produce morally good results.
- A set of social rules, customs, traditions, beliefs, or practices which specify proper, acceptable forms of conduct.
I think neither of these 2 meanings truly fit the campaign concept. Aero believes otherwise.
So, we are here, awaiting the for the wisdom of the members again.
Along the shore the cloud waves break,
The twin suns sink behind the lake,
The shadows lengthen
In Carcosa.

Strange is the night where black stars rise,
And strange moons circle through the skies,
But stranger still is
Lost Carcosa.

Songs that the Hyades shall sing,
Where flap the tatters of the King,
Must die unheard in
Dim Carcosa.

Song of my soul, my voice is dead,
Die thou, unsung, as tears unshed
Shall dry and die in
Lost Carcosa.
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CoNteMpT

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Re: Should we replace the word 'morality'?
« Reply #1 on: March 28, 2013, 10:23:19 am »
well you see, i never actually found out what morality is for anyways. does it just display the characters way of decisionmaking or do i actually benefit from having a high or low morale? does it influence the gameplay somehow? items i can get etc?

because if it doesnt, remove it completely or introduce the morality system to the player and give more opportunitys to get/lose morality. like the first time you can change your morality is the archmage in chp1. i killed him and lost morality and then i was like "oh, i hope thats not bad". then in chp4 i lost morality again and i just prayed to xyrzious that it wouldnt influence me in a bad way.

so what i think is: you either make it influence the game in a very visible way through quests and items and conversations/interludes, or you just remove it entirely.
also, morality is a good word and i wouldnt change it because as of right now, it doesnt display the HEROES morality but rather the players. sure phodom isnt a murderer and manslayer, but i the **** am, hell yeah. i killed those orcs, all of them. ****!
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liauyuancheng

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Re: Should we replace the word 'morality'?
« Reply #2 on: March 28, 2013, 11:31:08 am »
What's morality for? I dont see its impact in the game. Btw I have -4 now HAHAHA

CoNteMpT

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Re: Should we replace the word 'morality'?
« Reply #3 on: March 28, 2013, 12:11:42 pm »
you are a bad person and you should feel bad!
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liauyuancheng

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Re: Should we replace the word 'morality'?
« Reply #4 on: March 29, 2013, 12:09:51 pm »
Lol haha I sorry ;) but I always tried to maximize items and gold gained so too bad for my 'morality'

Shinokyofu

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Re: Should we replace the word 'morality'?
« Reply #5 on: March 29, 2013, 04:24:52 pm »
Even though there are the honor points already, i think the morality in this case is something similar to honor. A true honored knight, for example, would not kill someone just because he wants to. Another possiblity would be   sanctity, in another words, how good (saint) of a person you are. Virtue is another possilibity, and there are many others...

Lol haha I sorry ;) but I always tried to maximize items and gold gained so too bad for my 'morality'

Nah, there aren't that many difference in the items for choosing the dark side(they have cookies though).

The morality has impact later in the game if i'm not wrong, unlocking different endings and/or cinematics and such.
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Pourquoi

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Re: Should we replace the word 'morality'?
« Reply #6 on: March 30, 2013, 12:38:12 am »
well you see, i never actually found out what morality is for anyways. does it just display the characters way of decisionmaking or do i actually benefit from having a high or low morale? does it influence the gameplay somehow? items i can get etc?

because if it doesnt, remove it completely or introduce the morality system to the player and give more opportunitys to get/lose morality. like the first time you can change your morality is the archmage in chp1. i killed him and lost morality and then i was like "oh, i hope thats not bad". then in chp4 i lost morality again and i just prayed to xyrzious that it wouldnt influence me in a bad way.

so what i think is: you either make it influence the game in a very visible way through quests and items and conversations/interludes, or you just remove it entirely.
also, morality is a good word and i wouldnt change it because as of right now, it doesnt display the HEROES morality but rather the players. sure phodom isnt a murderer and manslayer, but i the **** am, hell yeah. i killed those orcs, all of them. ****!
I think you're seriously misunderstanding the word. Please consult your dictionary again.
Along the shore the cloud waves break,
The twin suns sink behind the lake,
The shadows lengthen
In Carcosa.

Strange is the night where black stars rise,
And strange moons circle through the skies,
But stranger still is
Lost Carcosa.

Songs that the Hyades shall sing,
Where flap the tatters of the King,
Must die unheard in
Dim Carcosa.

Song of my soul, my voice is dead,
Die thou, unsung, as tears unshed
Shall dry and die in
Lost Carcosa.
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CoNteMpT

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Re: Should we replace the word 'morality'?
« Reply #7 on: March 30, 2013, 09:06:21 pm »
well you see, i never actually found out what morality is for anyways. does it just display the characters way of decisionmaking or do i actually benefit from having a high or low morale? does it influence the gameplay somehow? items i can get etc?

because if it doesnt, remove it completely or introduce the morality system to the player and give more opportunitys to get/lose morality. like the first time you can change your morality is the archmage in chp1. i killed him and lost morality and then i was like "oh, i hope thats not bad". then in chp4 i lost morality again and i just prayed to xyrzious that it wouldnt influence me in a bad way.

so what i think is: you either make it influence the game in a very visible way through quests and items and conversations/interludes, or you just remove it entirely.
also, morality is a good word and i wouldnt change it because as of right now, it doesnt display the HEROES morality but rather the players. sure phodom isnt a murderer and manslayer, but i the **** am, hell yeah. i killed those orcs, all of them. ****!
I think you're seriously misunderstanding the word. Please consult your dictionary again.

i did and it saith its what i thought it was, so you probably missread something in my post?
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Pourquoi

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Re: Should we replace the word 'morality'?
« Reply #8 on: March 30, 2013, 09:23:31 pm »
Which dictionary are you using? Can you post the entry for the word here?
Along the shore the cloud waves break,
The twin suns sink behind the lake,
The shadows lengthen
In Carcosa.

Strange is the night where black stars rise,
And strange moons circle through the skies,
But stranger still is
Lost Carcosa.

Songs that the Hyades shall sing,
Where flap the tatters of the King,
Must die unheard in
Dim Carcosa.

Song of my soul, my voice is dead,
Die thou, unsung, as tears unshed
Shall dry and die in
Lost Carcosa.
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CoNteMpT

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Re: Should we replace the word 'morality'?
« Reply #9 on: March 31, 2013, 05:28:18 am »
i use www.dict.cc and wikipedia, you can look up the entry yourself
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Pourquoi

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Re: Should we replace the word 'morality'?
« Reply #10 on: March 31, 2013, 09:02:53 am »
Wikipedia said:
Quote
Morality is the differentiation of intentions, decisions, and actions between those that are "good" (or right) and those that are "bad" (or wrong).
Which is different from the campaign concept, which reflects on how the player's actions and choices conform to morality, and is not morality itself.
So I think the word is misused in the campaign.
Along the shore the cloud waves break,
The twin suns sink behind the lake,
The shadows lengthen
In Carcosa.

Strange is the night where black stars rise,
And strange moons circle through the skies,
But stranger still is
Lost Carcosa.

Songs that the Hyades shall sing,
Where flap the tatters of the King,
Must die unheard in
Dim Carcosa.

Song of my soul, my voice is dead,
Die thou, unsung, as tears unshed
Shall dry and die in
Lost Carcosa.
TCO Item List

Jaelbird

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Re: Should we replace the word 'morality'?
« Reply #11 on: March 31, 2013, 11:00:05 am »
voted for no coz there is no suggested replacement - would like to hear first what else it should be as it could end up being just about anything, from something genius to something stupid
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CoNteMpT

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Re: Should we replace the word 'morality'?
« Reply #12 on: March 31, 2013, 04:07:17 pm »
Wikipedia said:
Quote
Morality is the differentiation of intentions, decisions, and actions between those that are "good" (or right) and those that are "bad" (or wrong).
Which is different from the campaign concept, which reflects on how the player's actions and choices conform to morality, and is not morality itself.
So I think the word is misused in the campaign.

well its simple. in the world of balgaron, there is a set morality which saith you shall not lie, shall not kill and shall not do other "bad" stuff very similar to our own western social system.
if you have morality at zero, you are very close to the norm of the majority. if you have positive morality rating, it means that your own concept of morality has higher standards than the average balgaron morality. if it has negative value, it means you set lower standards for yourself. it doesnt reflect phodoms view of morality though, but only the players, since phodom never feels good after having decreased his morality value like slaying the archmage, while i actually think that fucker deserves it ; )

as you see, it fits pretty good. and its also a cool word and like totally underused. no other rpg i know uses that.

oh and because your main argument is that it doesnt fit the campaign: doesnt THIS

"Recognition of the distinction between good and evil or between right and wrong; respect for and obedience to the rules of right conduct; the mental disposition or characteristic of behaving in a manner intended to produce morally good results."

fit the campaign like a glass-shoe? i mean its like all about phodom being torn apart by his thirst for vengeance but also his kind heart, grief and lonelyness. i think his monologue after chp1 epicboss reflects perfectly why its so fitting.

its a concept that fits phodom, but as i said, its not phodoms own morality being displayed since he doesnt change his personality according to the players decisions but rather its the players morality contradicting with phodoms. thats what makes it so interesting.

what would you change it to? "reputation" ? its not really his reputation though since its really just whats going on in his heart and not what people say about him. if you have -4 morality, you are still the kind-hearted protector. its his inner conflict, not on the outside.
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liauyuancheng

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Re: Should we replace the word 'morality'?
« Reply #13 on: April 01, 2013, 02:46:09 am »
Lol haha I sorry ;) but I always tried to maximize items and gold gained so too bad for my 'morality'

Nah, there aren't that many difference in the items for choosing the dark side(they have cookies though).


? I beg to differ. In chapter 1, if you kill the epic boss, you can get a staff which is a part of a synthesis item that gives alot of magic dmg :) And you can get alot more money by killing the minons and selling all the random items in the huts. In chapter 5, if you kill the Gazas, you can get alot more money and steal Amulet of (something) which can be sold for quite a profit. And you get to kill another miniboss :D Basically, if u choose the dark side, u potentially can get much more money to spend. yay!

Anyway, I prefer if we throw suggestions on what words to use to replace morality because I cant think of any good substitute yet. xD

Pourquoi

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Re: Should we replace the word 'morality'?
« Reply #14 on: April 01, 2013, 06:12:04 am »
Quote
In chapter 5, if you kill the Gazas, you can get alot more money and steal Amulet of (something) which can be sold for quite a profit. And you get to kill another miniboss
If you haven't noticed, you can also get an Amulet of Great Life if you do not kill the Kaza Leader too. It's just more... obscure. Oh, and he's also not counted as a miniboss.
Quote
if you have morality at zero, you are very close to the norm of the majority. if you have positive morality rating, it means that your own concept of morality has higher standards than the average balgaron morality. if it has negative value, it means you set lower standards for yourself.
Morality is an objective concept independent of the values or mores held by any particular peoples or cultures. I think the campaign concept is more like how you do conform to morality.
Quote
no other rpg i know uses that.
Because it's not the right word, it'd seem.
Quote
what would you change it to?
Honour. Karma. Chivalry. Benevolence.
Along the shore the cloud waves break,
The twin suns sink behind the lake,
The shadows lengthen
In Carcosa.

Strange is the night where black stars rise,
And strange moons circle through the skies,
But stranger still is
Lost Carcosa.

Songs that the Hyades shall sing,
Where flap the tatters of the King,
Must die unheard in
Dim Carcosa.

Song of my soul, my voice is dead,
Die thou, unsung, as tears unshed
Shall dry and die in
Lost Carcosa.
TCO Item List