Author Topic: Strategie Debate: Spell builds  (Read 5006 times)

megmaconqueror

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Strategie Debate: Spell builds
« on: October 20, 2010, 03:58:49 am »
Alright, well, HellHeaven will know what this is for :P

For everyone else, here's an update.

Me and HH are debating on which is better suited for Phodom. Fire Mastery (me) or Aura of Fire (HH).

My arguements are (shorted)
  • Fire Mastery will improve Shield of Fire's healing a lot
  • Shield of fire will heal more than any of the other healing spells, including Fradz's
  • In the time Shield of fire lasts, aura of fire, will reduce about 128 (ranged only) where as Shield of fire will heal 1088 health.
  • Fradz's healing spell would only heal (speculation on stats) 688 hp and 440 mana, at lvl 20 and no lightning mastery
  • Heaven's Bless will only heal 347 with out Fire Mastery. (speculation on if revival is not instant) And if Phodom dies near the end of the buff, that leaves Fradz, and Galeoth open for a quick death.
  • Tanks need HPS, and he's got the best HPS spell, and it only gets better with Fire Mastery. (my opinion, not a fact)

HH's arguments (shortend also)
  • In later chapters you won't be using Phodom's spells that much thus rendering Fire Mastery useless
  • By using Heaven's Bless, you don't have to worry about healing or potions
  • Aura of Fire is meant for tank, since it reduces damage done. (Going off of HH's suggestion of Aura of fire, and 10 hits in 10 seconds) 128 from ranged units, and deals 420 damage to melee units. That with Silver Set and Red Orb set, he would kill any normal monster with out any physical attack or spell

So anyway, there's our standings, what's your thoughts? Got anything to add to either side?

Note: There's more to be added to HH's arguments, but i have to go to bed now, its late.
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[H]ell[H]eaven

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Re: Strategie Debate: Spell builds
« Reply #1 on: October 20, 2010, 04:03:19 am »
Nice 1 man but u should edit my strategy more.
It doesn't look **** like that  :'(

megmaconqueror

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Re: Strategie Debate: Spell builds
« Reply #2 on: October 20, 2010, 04:23:19 am »
I don't have time tonight, if you give me all the arguments you want there, I'll edit it when I get the chance, send them to me in a PM or in a post, doesn't matter either way to me.

Also, those are technically your words. You said that in later chapter you won't be using Phodom's spells much, which in-directly says that Fire mastery becomes unless in the later chapters. We both know you said those same words for #2, as for #3, I wasn't sure what to say, so I just did the math, and added the statement "With silver set and red orb set, he would kill any normal monster without physical attacks or spell".
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EndlessPain

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Re: Strategie Debate: Spell builds
« Reply #3 on: October 20, 2010, 08:23:28 am »
I agree with HH about aura of fire is better, my reason are:
-Phodom is becoming a tank on long term in thecampaing, and aura of fire will do a nice synergy with its role.
-For me at least, aura of fire dps can outlaw the extra dps of firemastery can do since aura of fire dps can be tigered much more frequently when fighting multiple enemies or a high attack speed monster.
-Phodom don't depend to much on his spells to fight, making aura of fire that reduce damage and make damage just by recieving damage more usefull.
-Finally don't need a extra heal of firemastery if he can reduce the damage he takes with aura of fire.

Well this is my point of view: aura of fire ftw  ;D.
« Last Edit: October 20, 2010, 08:25:01 am by EndlessPain »

Aeroblyctos

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Re: Strategie Debate: Spell builds
« Reply #4 on: October 20, 2010, 08:44:09 am »
This reply is only an answer to the first post.

Quote
Fire Mastery will improve Shield of Fire's healing a lot
Actually Fire Mastery increases all magic type abilities damage, but there are some exception. Also Fire Mastery will increase Spell Book Spells damages.

Quote
Shield of fire will heal more than any of the other healing spells, including Fradz's
Spell book spells heals even more.

Quote
# Fradz's healing spell would only heal (speculation on stats) 688 hp and 440 mana, at lvl 20 and no lightning mastery

HEAL ABILITIES

Hydro Shield: (abilvlx10)+(intx0,5)
   => Lvl 1 & 50 INT: (1x10)+(50x0,5) = 35
   => Lvl 10 & 250 INT: (10x10)+(250x0,5) = 250
Blessing of Lightning:
- Stats (abilvlx5)+(agix0,1)
- Hp: (abilvlx100)+(strx4)
   => Lvl 1 & 50 STR: (1x100)+(50x4) = 300
   => Lvl 10 & 250 STR: (10x100)+(250x4) = 2000
   => Lvl 20 & 500 STR: (20x100)+(500x4) = 4000
- Mana: (abilvlx50)+(intx2)
   => Lvl 1 & 50 INT: (1x50)+(50x2) = 150
   => Lvl 10 & 250 INT: (10x50)+(250x2) = 750
   => Lvl 20 & 500 INT: (20x50)+(500x2) = 2000
Speedy Boost:
- Agility: (abilvlx10)+(agix0,2)
   => Lvl 1 & 50 AGI: (1x10)+(50x0,2) = 20
   => Lvl 10 & 250 AGI: (10x10)+(250x0,2) = 150
   => Lvl 20 & 500 AGI: (20x10)+(500x0,2) = 300
- Hit Point Regeneration: (abilvlx8)+(strx0,2)
   => Lvl 1 & 50 STR: (1x8)+(50x0,2) = 18 / SEC (270)
   => Lvl 10 & 250 STR: (10x8)+(250x0,2) = 130 (1950)
   => Lvl 20 & 500 STR: (20x8)+(500x0,2) = 260 (3900)
- Mana Regeneration: (abilvlx4)+(intx0,1)
   => Lvl 1 & 50 INT: (1x4)+(50x0,1) = 9 / SEC (135)
   => Lvl 10 & 250 INT: (10x4)+(250x0,1) = 65 (975)
   => Lvl 20 & 500 INT: (20x4)+(500x0,1) = 130 (1950)
Attack Speed: - 25%
Movement Speed: - Max mov spd

Quote
# In later chapters you won't be using Phodom's spells that much thus rendering Fire Mastery useless
Depends how you play the game.

MofoBear

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Re: Strategie Debate: Spell builds
« Reply #5 on: October 20, 2010, 11:19:42 am »
I wish this answer was simple but it isn't.
First i ll make a little intro. Truth is Heaven's Bless is better than Shield of Fire, for a simple reason: Heal is INSTANT. In a difficult situation like a boss fight this difference between these 2 heal spells is major.
So, i prefer Heaven's Bless for the reason that i mentioned above, the second ability of the skill(resurrection) sounds useful, but so far i have never needed it.
Now lets stick to the point: I prefer Fire Mastery to Aura of Fire because
  • It provides my Phodom with a better Heaven's Bless.
  • It will improve any other Fire spell i might pick up through the campaign. Moreover, if these extra spells are healing ones then i will be most happy.
This question is a subjective one, it depends on which each campaign player's needs are. You want a hybrid tank/dps/healer? Get Aura of Fire. You want a hybrid tank/spellcaster/improved healer? Get Fire Mastery.

Aeroblyctos

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Re: Strategie Debate: Spell builds
« Reply #6 on: October 20, 2010, 12:18:19 pm »
I have been thinking. It sounds sexier to my ears to have a heal per second skill with a resurrection bonus than instant heal with instant heal. I guess I could make things like this:

- Heaven's Bless would be like Shied Of Fire without that armor bonus.
- Shield Of Fire to be an instant heal and gives something for next 10 seconds.

MofoBear

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Re: Strategie Debate: Spell builds
« Reply #7 on: October 20, 2010, 01:07:05 pm »
I have been thinking. It sounds sexier to my ears to have a heal per second skill with a resurrection bonus than instant heal with instant heal. I guess I could make things like this:

- Heaven's Bless would be like Shied Of Fire without that armor bonus.
- Shield Of Fire to be an instant heal and gives something for next 10 seconds.

Modify Shield of Fire to give insta-heal and % melee return damage buff as long it is active. That would be cheesy... huhuhu...

EndlessPain

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Re: Strategie Debate: Spell builds
« Reply #8 on: October 20, 2010, 01:47:37 pm »
I have been thinking. It sounds sexier to my ears to have a heal per second skill with a resurrection bonus than instant heal with instant heal. I guess I could make things like this:

- Heaven's Bless would be like Shied Of Fire without that armor bonus.
- Shield Of Fire to be an instant heal and gives something for next 10 seconds.
Please don't change shield of fire it is perfect right now: btw i like more healing overtime, cause if i want a insta heal i would just drink a potion, but the good things about shield of fire is that u can use it when u reseave a bit of damage and don't see ur hp fall a lot for 10 sec   :o and also be more tank within that time cause of teh  armour , please don't change it :(

megmaconqueror

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Re: Strategie Debate: Spell builds
« Reply #9 on: October 20, 2010, 08:03:35 pm »
@Endless Pain
1) The dps gained from Fire Mastery allows (insert spell here) to surpass aura of fire's dps
2) Reduced damage is weaker than the HPS

@Aero
1) Yeah, the exceptions are those that do not use magic bonus.
2) I haven't really used spell book spells that much in alpha truthfully. ^^;
3) Hydro never says that it has a heal.
3b) I'm sorry, I totally missed speedy boost's regen.

@MofobBeat
1) Instant heal means just that, instant heal. Every ==> 12 <===, seconds you can heal. Shield of fire, heals over time, meaning it can act like damage reduction but still heals more than heaven's bless. And that "major" difference is in favor of shield of fire, because of the fact that the heal is greater than heaven's bless. But like I've said before, if you can't survive, the resurrection is better.
2) If you don't need resurrection, and if the heal is lower and slower, why use it? You get armor bonus and a bigger heal overall.
3) A non-subjective debate wouldn't be a debate now would it?

@Aero again
1) okay, say you do make Heaven's Bless with a HoT (heal over time), would its calculations be changed? Such as, the HPS will equal shield of fire's with Phodom at level 10?
2) Phodom already has a 1% magbonus%, so how is it put into the calculations? 101%x((abilvlx100) + (intx3) + magbonus))/5 or 1%x((abilvlx100) + (intx3) + magbonus))/5?
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LucasMapurunga

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Re: Strategie Debate: Spell builds
« Reply #10 on: October 20, 2010, 08:39:19 pm »
Sincerely, Fire Mastery seems like a lot better then Aura of Fire.

I never used them, so i'm talking about what I read here:

1- Fire Mastery really improve your skills. Even if you are in a late game, a little more damage from Phoenix Combo or Meltdown or even a spell book spell can make diference.

2- No problems for normal mobs ? Common, you have to worry more with bosses here. You can have a certain damage reduction in later levels, but Fire Mastery effect is better. IMO.

3- Heal over time is pretty nice, although making Shield of Fire insta-heal would make it a LOT better, since we can see the real cure. Moreover, if getting Fire Mastery makes it better, i'm with Fire Mastery.

4- I trully don't like Heaven's Bless at all. I think it's a little bit OPed.  :P
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MofoBear

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Re: Strategie Debate: Spell builds
« Reply #11 on: October 21, 2010, 02:43:24 am »
@MofobBeat
1) Instant heal means just that, instant heal. Every ==> 12 <===, seconds you can heal. Shield of fire, heals over time, meaning it can act like damage reduction but still heals more than heaven's bless. And that "major" difference is in favor of shield of fire, because of the fact that the heal is greater than heaven's bless. But like I've said before, if you can't survive, the resurrection is better.
2) If you don't need resurrection, and if the heal is lower and slower, why use it? You get armor bonus and a bigger heal overall.


Well, have you ever thought that incoming damage from an epic boss is bigger than the heal-over-time that Shield of Fire gives you? Or sometimes the boss casts a super spell and if you didn't bulk up you just die, armor won't matter there. In my playstyle when it comes to terms with heal i prefer the instant one, i don't care if the total heal is greater.

Aeroblyctos

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Re: Strategie Debate: Spell builds
« Reply #12 on: October 21, 2010, 03:09:00 am »
- The idea behind my idea is that I quite don't like the combination of instant heal and resurrection(original idea was to have a healing spell with low cooldown and instant heal, resurrection idea came later...).
- I could let Shield Of Fire stay and edit the Heaven's Bless to be like heal per second and that resurrection buff.
- Then I could make third ability something like instant heal and something.
- Actually that 1% is a bug I can't fix.  ;D

[H]ell[H]eaven

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Re: Strategie Debate: Spell builds
« Reply #13 on: October 21, 2010, 03:36:42 am »
wall of text, look really confusing  :o
I was thinking of Boss's special spell but MofoBear mentioned abt that already so i just give an example:
Your Phodom has 200/1000 hp when fighting an epic boss
+ u use Shield of Fire which give regen 100hp/sec over 8 sec so u will hav full hp after 8s. But after 2 s, epic boss uses super spell make u lose over 500 hp, and u die, game over if don't have any live
+But if u use Heaven's Bless u can heal instantly 500hp which is smaller amount than heal 800 hp of Shield of fire( 8 sec) but u can avoid dying( it's an example, i don't know how many sec u get regen as well as the exact value u can heal, so example, every1 can understand)

Or sometimes the boss casts a super spell and if you didn't bulk up you just die, armor won't matter there
armor can reduce dam from spells as well, in the other hand, it does increase magic resistance.

We can see that Fire Mastery outmatched Aura of Fire in every aspects when it comes to boss fight, i agree but do u ever think abt enjoy campaign in some others way?
I like killing the mob without use any spell or attack, just make Phodom run around and thing is done  :D( and of course, mobs never never can be a problem with me)

An other point, having resurrect is really good.Think abt u fight epic boss for 20 mins already in later chapter, look like everything is in your hand but suddenly the boss uses really nasty spell and kill off 2 members and the last 1 just die in matter of second, how u feel? Like Loading game? Nah, i don't think so. U can buy lives but buy combat king is way more satisfied me than lives. I never buy live at all, or maybe just 1 live in 1 boss fight is enough.

@megma: u wrote down too much, lol  :P. Maybe we should discuss later though private message. I really don't like read a wall of text and reply with an other wall of text  :(

MofoBear

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Re: Strategie Debate: Spell builds
« Reply #14 on: October 21, 2010, 06:25:51 am »
armor can reduce dam from spells as well, in the other hand, it does increase magic resistance.

Who told you that? Spell damage has two types:
  • Physical Damage, reduced by armor
  • Magical Damage, reduced by magic resistance
As far as i know, all spells/skills in TCO Campaign deal magical damage, thus remain unaffected by armor value. I said armor value, not armor type.