Author Topic: Strategie Debate: Spell builds  (Read 4805 times)

[H]ell[H]eaven

  • Nadija
  • ****
  • Posts: 304
  • [A]pocalypse
  • Location: Sydney, Australia
    • View Profile
Re: Strategie Debate: Spell builds
« Reply #15 on: October 21, 2010, 06:57:09 am »
armor can reduce dam from spells as well, in the other hand, it does increase magic resistance.

Who told you that? Spell damage has two types:
  • Physical Damage, reduced by armor
  • Magical Damage, reduced by magic resistance
As far as i know, all spells/skills in TCO Campaign deal magical damage, thus remain unaffected by armor value. I said armor value, not armor type.

I know u said abt Armor value
That was my bad, sr.

megmaconqueror

  • Fradz
  • ***
  • Posts: 106
  • I kill you, yes?
  • Location: The throne belonging to the ruler of hell?
    • View Profile
Re: Strategie Debate: Spell builds
« Reply #16 on: October 21, 2010, 10:36:23 am »
@Mofo
1) From Chapter 1 alone, my Heal over Time was greater than the epic boss's dps. Hps was about, 108, epic boss's dps was about 70-100. And the "bulk up" comes from the str and hp that you get from Avatar.

@HH
1) Shield of Fire lasts 10 seconds. And of course there's a wall of text. This is a debate, and I invited everyone that had at least 1 post on their account. There is 5 different opinions going on right now. I replied to the person's argument. Like I'm doing here.

Now this explanation hits both Mofo and HH.
1) If Phodom is that low, after casting the shield, continuing to attack just invites that death.
2) Cast shield, and circle the boss. You keep arggo, and your dps can still attack.
3) However, if the boss uses an instant AoE then yeah, you're kinda screwed.
4) But now, if you got a good HoT, why the hell are you at 200 life? That means you're not using it right. You should never be that low. When fighting the epic boss in chapter one, I never got that low, at least not without vitality's help.
5) Also, using avatar will greatly delay your death, and gives you enough time to regenerate a good about of life.
6) Besides, what kind of tanker only has 1000 life?
(By the way HH, found why I kept dying to the epic boss, lol, he kept taking away my vitality)


@Aero
1) Shield of fire remake here :P
2) Hmm... alright. So then, if you don't like it, change it. I mean, you've already said what sounds good to you. So you can do that. :)
Hey you... Yes you... get over here...

  o                                o
 /|\ -     -      -       -     ?|
  |                                 |
 / \                               /|

BOOM HEAD SHOT!!!! HAHA


MofoBear

  • Prospero
  • *
  • Posts: 34
    • View Profile
Re: Strategie Debate: Spell builds
« Reply #17 on: October 21, 2010, 10:45:50 am »
@Mofo
1) From Chapter 1 alone, my Heal over Time was greater than the epic boss's dps. Hps was about, 108, epic boss's dps was about 70-100. And the "bulk up" comes from the str and hp that you get from Avatar.

Now this explanation hits both Mofo and HH.
1) If Phodom is that low, after casting the shield, continuing to attack just invites that death.
2) Cast shield, and circle the boss. You keep arggo, and your dps can still attack.
3) However, if the boss uses an instant AoE then yeah, you're kinda screwed.
4) But now, if you got a good HoT, why the hell are you at 200 life? That means you're not using it right. You should never be that low. When fighting the epic boss in chapter one, I never got that low, at least not without vitality's help.
5) Also, using avatar will greatly delay your death, and gives you enough time to regenerate a good about of life.
6) Besides, what kind of tanker only has 1000 life?
(By the way HH, found why I kept dying to the epic boss, lol, he kept taking away my vitality)

Who said i m using Avatar? Well i don't, i usually get aoe attack.
1)Yes, that's what i m talking about.
2)I cast Heaven's Bless and circle the boss, it's the same thing. After 12 secs i cast 2nd heal and attack, that's a no-brainer.
3)That's where Heaven's Bless excels.
4)You have 200 hp because you got silenced/stuned and you don't use healing pots. At least that's why i manage to hit 200 hp.
5)I don't use avatar, but i think i might just start using it from now on.
6)The low lvl tanker that doesn't use avatar.

megmaconqueror

  • Fradz
  • ***
  • Posts: 106
  • I kill you, yes?
  • Location: The throne belonging to the ruler of hell?
    • View Profile
Re: Strategie Debate: Spell builds
« Reply #18 on: October 21, 2010, 07:37:32 pm »
@Mofobeat
1) Who said that you are using it?
2) You said
Quote
if you didn't bulk up you just die
2a) I answered with
Quote
Also, using avatar will greatly delay your death, and gives you enough time to regenerate a good about of life.
3) Only Silence would would make you have 200 hp, and that's if it is like, 15 seconds or more, well maybe 10 seconds depending on timing.
4) With epic bosses, you should always know what to expect. If there's a stun, and you know about the hp % that he uses a spell, then you can time shield of fire right, and that stun wouldn't mean crap.
5) That 500 hp you lost, would be gone in 5 secs, leaving a 500 hp cushion for the physical attacks that the boss is going to do.
5) Haha, yeah, I was the same way when it first came in. I stuck with AoE dmg, since Phodom is tanker, he doesn't need that AoE.
6) At level 10, Phodom HAS 1125 health, he has a base hp of 175, and str of 38, its 25 hp per str. Add in about 20-30 str from items, that's another 750 (30 str) making it 1875 hp.
6a) So unless you have some item or ability that reduced str, or are not level 7/8 yet, only 1000 hp is impossible. By level 7/8 (7.22) you will have 1000 hp, with out any items, hp buffs, or spells. And I doubt anyone is going to fight the epic boss while not being maxed lvl for the chapter.
Hey you... Yes you... get over here...

  o                                o
 /|\ -     -      -       -     ?|
  |                                 |
 / \                               /|

BOOM HEAD SHOT!!!! HAHA


MofoBear

  • Prospero
  • *
  • Posts: 34
    • View Profile
Re: Strategie Debate: Spell builds
« Reply #19 on: October 22, 2010, 05:12:35 am »
@Mofobeat
1) Who said that you are using it?
2) You said
Quote
if you didn't bulk up you just die
2a) I answered with
Quote
Also, using avatar will greatly delay your death, and gives you enough time to regenerate a good about of life.
3) Only Silence would would make you have 200 hp, and that's if it is like, 15 seconds or more, well maybe 10 seconds depending on timing.
4) With epic bosses, you should always know what to expect. If there's a stun, and you know about the hp % that he uses a spell, then you can time shield of fire right, and that stun wouldn't mean crap.
5) That 500 hp you lost, would be gone in 5 secs, leaving a 500 hp cushion for the physical attacks that the boss is going to do.
5) Haha, yeah, I was the same way when it first came in. I stuck with AoE dmg, since Phodom is tanker, he doesn't need that AoE.
6) At level 10, Phodom HAS 1125 health, he has a base hp of 175, and str of 38, its 25 hp per str. Add in about 20-30 str from items, that's another 750 (30 str) making it 1875 hp.
6a) So unless you have some item or ability that reduced str, or are not level 7/8 yet, only 1000 hp is impossible. By level 7/8 (7.22) you will have 1000 hp, with out any items, hp buffs, or spells. And I doubt anyone is going to fight the epic boss while not being maxed lvl for the chapter.

I think we are starting to get off-topic. Plus, i got a little confused with your answers.
You start assuming things to support your arguments. Not everyone uses the same skill setup as you do. Not everyone uses the same items setup as you do. So how can you make calculations, when you don't know each one's setup? 200hp with 15 secs silence, 500hp+500hp, where did you come up with that? Hello? Why do you use numbers in your answers since the number you refer to is totally irrelevant?

Me:   if you didn't bulk up you just die
You:  Also, using avatar will greatly delay your death, and gives you enough time to regenerate a good about of life.
        Haha, yeah, I was the same way when it first came in. I stuck with AoE dmg, since Phodom is tanker, he doesn't need that AoE.

Ok man you are a pro, you have Avatar to bulk up. So, what you are really trying to say here is to load the campaign from the start and get Avatar, because aoe is crap and Phodom doesn't need it. You don't sound very convincing, do you? After all, tell Aero that all hero skills he made are crap, except the ones that you use.


Me: 5)I don't use avatar, but i think i might just start using it from now on
You:5) That 500 hp you lost, would be gone in 5 secs, leaving a 500 hp cushion for the physical attacks that the boss is going to do.
       
Could you be more specific please? It's all greek to me.


At level 10, Phodom has 1050 hp, not 1125.
Base hp 175? Jesus, where did you come up with that? Or that (7.22), what it is? Or that 1000hp you mentioned, stop arguing about that, you are the one who came up with that number in the first place, do i have to remind you that? 6) Besides, what kind of tanker only has 1000 life? I didn't say i have 1000 hp when i go fight a boss, so stop quoting around that. I just gave you an answer to your question.

Lvl 10 Phodom, no items on, with lvl 2 Heaven's Bless and lvl 2 Fire Mastery = more than 900hp Insta-Heal, and that's a fact, do you want me to send the save so you can see for yourself? Can you (Mofo)beat that with Fire Shield? I guess you can't.

p.s. It's MofoBeaR, not MofoBeaT.

megmaconqueror

  • Fradz
  • ***
  • Posts: 106
  • I kill you, yes?
  • Location: The throne belonging to the ruler of hell?
    • View Profile
Re: Strategie Debate: Spell builds
« Reply #20 on: October 23, 2010, 12:19:52 am »
I think we are starting to get off-topic. Plus, i got a little confused with your answers.
You start assuming things to support your arguments. Not everyone uses the same skill setup as you do. Not everyone uses the same items setup as you do. So how can you make calculations, when you don't know each one's setup? 200hp with 15 secs silence, 500hp+500hp, where did you come up with that? Hello? Why do you use numbers in your answers since the number you refer to is totally irrelevant?

Me:   if you didn't bulk up you just die
You:  Also, using avatar will greatly delay your death, and gives you enough time to regenerate a good about of life.
        Haha, yeah, I was the same way when it first came in. I stuck with AoE dmg, since Phodom is tanker, he doesn't need that AoE.

Ok man you are a pro, you have Avatar to bulk up. So, what you are really trying to say here is to load the campaign from the start and get Avatar, because aoe is crap and Phodom doesn't need it. You don't sound very convincing, do you? After all, tell Aero that all hero skills he made are crap, except the ones that you use.


Me: 5)I don't use avatar, but i think i might just start using it from now on
You:5) That 500 hp you lost, would be gone in 5 secs, leaving a 500 hp cushion for the physical attacks that the boss is going to do.
       
Could you be more specific please? It's all greek to me.


At level 10, Phodom has 1050 hp, not 1125.
Base hp 175? Jesus, where did you come up with that? Or that (7.22), what it is? Or that 1000hp you mentioned, stop arguing about that, you are the one who came up with that number in the first place, do i have to remind you that? 6) Besides, what kind of tanker only has 1000 life? I didn't say i have 1000 hp when i go fight a boss, so stop quoting around that. I just gave you an answer to your question.

Lvl 10 Phodom, no items on, with lvl 2 Heaven's Bless and lvl 2 Fire Mastery = more than 900hp Insta-Heal, and that's a fact, do you want me to send the save so you can see for yourself? Can you (Mofo)beat that with Fire Shield? I guess you can't.

p.s. It's MofoBeaR, not MofoBeaT.
This is a debate on spell builds. So technically can't get off topic.

I don't assume everyone uses the same skills or items I do. I never said that that. Look, Phodom starts out with 20 str, and if you scroll over the main attribute icon, it tells you what you get either each point in each stat. 1 str = 25 health. 20 * 25 is 500. 675 - 500 is 175, that's is his base health. At level 10, WITH OUT ANY ITEMS OR POTIONS, phodom has 38 str, that's 18 more str, that's 450 health 450 + 500 is 950, add the base hp of 175, it comes out to 1125 health. I am NOT basing my calculations on items or abilities. I clearly stat, WITH OUT ITEMS OR ABILITIES, it comes out to X. If I do include an ability or item, I STATE THAT I AM USING THAT. Read better.

No, I'm not saying start over or that I'm a pro, I suck actually. I'm just stating the mathematical side, which points to other sides. You said that Phodom had to bulk up, or he'd die. I stated that WITH avatar, Phodom bulks up, and doesn't die. As for AoE, yeah its great, get it, get avatar, I don't care what you do or how you play. To me, Phodom doesn't need AoE attack, so who cares what I say? You clearly don't, hell, I don't even care about it because I know it means nothing to others that like AoE attack. All the abilities Aero made are good, for their own situation, just like every other freaking spell anyone has made. I'm stating which ones have the most likely, and more common situations to be the spell that excels at.

Quote
5) That 500 hp you lost, would be gone in 5 secs, leaving a 500 hp cushion for the physical attacks that the boss is going to do.
5) Haha, yeah, I was the same way when it first came in. I stuck with AoE dmg, since Phodom is tanker, he doesn't need that AoE.

Ums, I'm not sure exactly, I think that the first 5) was something I forgot to delete (rethink, reword, change statements) XD and I do apologize for that.

Its simple, start the campaign, before leveling up, look at Phodom's stats, and the gain for each stat. Str is 20, hp for each str is 25. Now since I knew the str at lvl 10 is 38, I took (38 - 20)/10 which comes to 1.8 str per level. Going on that, the base health, and the str at level 1, I calculated how many levels Phodom needed to get 1000 health. You said low level tanker, I was giving you the lowest level possible for Phodom to have 1000 health without items, spell buffs, or any other stat modifier.

Heaven's Bless: Heal, (magbonus%+100%)x((abilvlx100)+(intx3)+magbonus)

magbonus% = 0
abilvl = 2
int = 24
magbonus = 272

100%x(200 + 72 + 272)
100%x(544)
100% = 1
1x544 = 544

So unless you have more stats then what Phodom has as a BASE, then yeah, its going to be bigger. Well, base and Fire Mastery.

And sorry, typo. I mean T is next R. Easy to hit it by mistake.
Hey you... Yes you... get over here...

  o                                o
 /|\ -     -      -       -     ?|
  |                                 |
 / \                               /|

BOOM HEAD SHOT!!!! HAHA


MofoBear

  • Prospero
  • *
  • Posts: 34
    • View Profile
Re: Strategie Debate: Spell builds
« Reply #21 on: October 23, 2010, 06:34:11 am »
I think we are starting to get off-topic. Plus, i got a little confused with your answers.
You start assuming things to support your arguments. Not everyone uses the same skill setup as you do. Not everyone uses the same items setup as you do. So how can you make calculations, when you don't know each one's setup? 200hp with 15 secs silence, 500hp+500hp, where did you come up with that? Hello? Why do you use numbers in your answers since the number you refer to is totally irrelevant?

Me:   if you didn't bulk up you just die
You:  Also, using avatar will greatly delay your death, and gives you enough time to regenerate a good about of life.
        Haha, yeah, I was the same way when it first came in. I stuck with AoE dmg, since Phodom is tanker, he doesn't need that AoE.

Ok man you are a pro, you have Avatar to bulk up. So, what you are really trying to say here is to load the campaign from the start and get Avatar, because aoe is crap and Phodom doesn't need it. You don't sound very convincing, do you? After all, tell Aero that all hero skills he made are crap, except the ones that you use.


Me: 5)I don't use avatar, but i think i might just start using it from now on
You:5) That 500 hp you lost, would be gone in 5 secs, leaving a 500 hp cushion for the physical attacks that the boss is going to do.
       
Could you be more specific please? It's all greek to me.


At level 10, Phodom has 1050 hp, not 1125.
Base hp 175? Jesus, where did you come up with that? Or that (7.22), what it is? Or that 1000hp you mentioned, stop arguing about that, you are the one who came up with that number in the first place, do i have to remind you that? 6) Besides, what kind of tanker only has 1000 life? I didn't say i have 1000 hp when i go fight a boss, so stop quoting around that. I just gave you an answer to your question.

Lvl 10 Phodom, no items on, with lvl 2 Heaven's Bless and lvl 2 Fire Mastery = more than 900hp Insta-Heal, and that's a fact, do you want me to send the save so you can see for yourself? Can you (Mofo)beat that with Fire Shield? I guess you can't.

p.s. It's MofoBeaR, not MofoBeaT.
This is a debate on spell builds. So technically can't get off topic.

I don't assume everyone uses the same skills or items I do. I never said that that. Look, Phodom starts out with 20 str, and if you scroll over the main attribute icon, it tells you what you get either each point in each stat. 1 str = 25 health. 20 * 25 is 500. 675 - 500 is 175, that's is his base health. At level 10, WITH OUT ANY ITEMS OR POTIONS, phodom has 38 str, that's 18 more str, that's 450 health 450 + 500 is 950, add the base hp of 175, it comes out to 1125 health. I am NOT basing my calculations on items or abilities. I clearly stat, WITH OUT ITEMS OR ABILITIES, it comes out to X. If I do include an ability or item, I STATE THAT I AM USING THAT. Read better.

No, I'm not saying start over or that I'm a pro, I suck actually. I'm just stating the mathematical side, which points to other sides. You said that Phodom had to bulk up, or he'd die. I stated that WITH avatar, Phodom bulks up, and doesn't die. As for AoE, yeah its great, get it, get avatar, I don't care what you do or how you play. To me, Phodom doesn't need AoE attack, so who cares what I say? You clearly don't, hell, I don't even care about it because I know it means nothing to others that like AoE attack. All the abilities Aero made are good, for their own situation, just like every other freaking spell anyone has made. I'm stating which ones have the most likely, and more common situations to be the spell that excels at.

Quote
5) That 500 hp you lost, would be gone in 5 secs, leaving a 500 hp cushion for the physical attacks that the boss is going to do.
5) Haha, yeah, I was the same way when it first came in. I stuck with AoE dmg, since Phodom is tanker, he doesn't need that AoE.

Ums, I'm not sure exactly, I think that the first 5) was something I forgot to delete (rethink, reword, change statements) XD and I do apologize for that.

Its simple, start the campaign, before leveling up, look at Phodom's stats, and the gain for each stat. Str is 20, hp for each str is 25. Now since I knew the str at lvl 10 is 38, I took (38 - 20)/10 which comes to 1.8 str per level. Going on that, the base health, and the str at level 1, I calculated how many levels Phodom needed to get 1000 health. You said low level tanker, I was giving you the lowest level possible for Phodom to have 1000 health without items, spell buffs, or any other stat modifier.

Heaven's Bless: Heal, (magbonus%+100%)x((abilvlx100)+(intx3)+magbonus)

magbonus% = 0
abilvl = 2
int = 24
magbonus = 272

100%x(200 + 72 + 272)
100%x(544)
100% = 1
1x544 = 544

So unless you have more stats then what Phodom has as a BASE, then yeah, its going to be bigger. Well, base and Fire Mastery.

And sorry, typo. I mean T is next R. Easy to hit it by mistake.

Wrong wrong wrong. It's all wrong.






Now the facts:
1)Phodom starts with 600 hp, and gains 2 Str per level.
2)Phodom starts with 45 spell dmg, and gains 3 spell dmg per level.
3)Phodom at lvl 10 has 1050 hp, not 1125.
4)Phodom at lvl 10 with lvl 2 Heaven's Bless and lvl 2 Fire Mastery has 944 insta-heal. Now do the math again and find where your error was.

Edit: OMG. You continue arguing about that 1000hp. NOBODY SAID ANYTHING ABOUT 1000HP BUT YOU. GET OVER IT. PLZ.
« Last Edit: October 23, 2010, 01:42:25 pm by MofoBear »

megmaconqueror

  • Fradz
  • ***
  • Posts: 106
  • I kill you, yes?
  • Location: The throne belonging to the ruler of hell?
    • View Profile
Re: Strategie Debate: Spell builds
« Reply #22 on: October 24, 2010, 01:18:51 am »

So yeah... i don't know whats up O.o My starting hp is 675 and I get 1150 at level 10.
Hey you... Yes you... get over here...

  o                                o
 /|\ -     -      -       -     ?|
  |                                 |
 / \                               /|

BOOM HEAD SHOT!!!! HAHA


Aeroblyctos

  • Administrator
  • Xyrzious
  • *****
  • Posts: 3361
  • Location: Helsinki, Finland
    • View Profile
Re: Strategie Debate: Spell builds
« Reply #23 on: October 24, 2010, 11:34:40 am »
STR charm? I removed it however...

megmaconqueror

  • Fradz
  • ***
  • Posts: 106
  • I kill you, yes?
  • Location: The throne belonging to the ruler of hell?
    • View Profile
Re: Strategie Debate: Spell builds
« Reply #24 on: October 24, 2010, 02:57:27 pm »
Nope, nothing. Well, what ever, my comp has been messing with warcraft III for a few months now. Man I hate windows 7. So maybe its just a bug caused by my system?

Okay weird, I just started a new one, and I had 600 hp. Haha, I have no idea what the hell is going on. >.<
Hey you... Yes you... get over here...

  o                                o
 /|\ -     -      -       -     ?|
  |                                 |
 / \                               /|

BOOM HEAD SHOT!!!! HAHA


megmaconqueror

  • Fradz
  • ***
  • Posts: 106
  • I kill you, yes?
  • Location: The throne belonging to the ruler of hell?
    • View Profile
Re: Strategie Debate: Spell builds
« Reply #25 on: October 28, 2010, 11:13:56 pm »
Alright, this Debate is dead, so I'm going to request that it gets closed. A new thread about spell builds will be created, and will be more focused on the spell builds you choose, more information will be in the thread.
Hey you... Yes you... get over here...

  o                                o
 /|\ -     -      -       -     ?|
  |                                 |
 / \                               /|

BOOM HEAD SHOT!!!! HAHA


Aeroblyctos

  • Administrator
  • Xyrzious
  • *****
  • Posts: 3361
  • Location: Helsinki, Finland
    • View Profile
Re: Strategie Debate: Spell builds
« Reply #26 on: October 29, 2010, 04:25:20 am »
Okay, then this is closed.