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Author Topic: Ability Debate  (Read 1269 times)

Aeroblyctos

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Ability Debate
« on: April 08, 2011, 05:33:33 am »
Hello.

The idea of this thread is:

1) You can tell what is your build
2) Suggest new abilities or improve the current ones
3) Discuss about abilities


Phodom
Spoiler (hover to show)

Fradz
Spoiler (hover to show)

Galeoth
Spoiler (hover to show)
« Last Edit: August 05, 2011, 06:54:38 pm by Aeroblyctos »

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pl4ton

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Re: Ability Debate
« Reply #1 on: April 08, 2011, 07:00:39 am »
Ok, ill start with Fradz. I have been playing dota and other rpgs for a long time now and always been trying to maximize my heros potential.

In my opinion Fradz is the hardest hero to play. Phodom can tank with his huge hp/armor/tank items. Galeoth is ranged, 600 attack range if im right. Means he just can stand behind and cast his spells.

Fradz on the other hand is very fragile since he is an agi hero and  therfore has low hp, BUT has the greatest damage potential of all heroes. By trying a bit with items for him, i reached over +1200 damage  in chapter 6!  ;D
my aim for fradz is to maximize his dps potential, thats why i mostly choose defensive spells for him.

So here is my spell build for him:

1) Illusionary Double : although weak in the beginning, it gets stronger with fradz levels. Besides its often usefull to have an off tank that can distract the ennemy. Even if the illusion dies in 2-3 hits it often saved my life.

2) Thunder: Slows the ennemies move and attackspeed and deals decent damage. Not the most important  skill, but i like the slow =)

3) Invisible Strike: I always use this. Gives bonus movement speed, has low cooldown, low manacost and it helps greatly at chapter 2. Since the Damage only gets up by 250 per level, I sometimes leave it lvl 2 or 3 and focus on other spells. The low cooldown helps to retreat fast if needed. 
And since stealing is important to get all the nice items, I always use this as "opener". Go invis, wait  until its ready again, go close to the boss/creep, hit, steal and invis again. Easiest way to steal imho.


4) Lightning Storm: The idea behind choosing this spell is to dodge ennemy spells. Especially Elite and Epic bosses who often instant kill u with one spell. Unfortunately its bugged.

5) Speedy Boost: Max movement for a short period of time, some attack speed bonus , healing and the best part its an aoe spell. Means Phodom and Galeoth gain it aswell. Outshines the other spells of this category in my opinion.

6) Teleport Strike: Fradz gets invulnearble for 12 attacks and jumps arround hitting the ennemies. I love this spell, especially against bosses. But it gets useless if the boss summons creeps or turns invulneable. Needs some timing to cast. But if it hits, its deadly =)


Overall, i read some people use Fradz as Spellcaster. Never tried it to be honest, even I think it could be awesome. But in my opinion, Agility heroes are traditional physical Damage Dealers. Increase their attack speed, give them some Damage items and voila ^^

Right now i cant imagine any spell improvements for Fradz, only that Lightning storm should rend him immune to spells.

Maybe someone else comes up with suggestions for him, I think he is pretty balanced now.
« Last Edit: April 08, 2011, 07:10:55 am by pl4ton »

Tears

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Re: Ability Debate
« Reply #2 on: April 09, 2011, 11:36:45 am »
I. Spell Choice
My Phodom
Spoiler (hover to show)

My Galeoth
Spoiler (hover to show)

My Fradz
Spoiler (hover to show)

II. Items build
And now, this is how I build them.
With Phodom, I give him items that give Health, Mana, Health and Mana regen, the most important items I think of is... Life Stone, which I think is a little bit weak... In version 1.5b I use 2 of this for Phodom, but from version 1.5d, it require 4-Brothers' items set so I can only buy one. Secondary, I give him Strength, Armor and Spell damage and items that restore health and mana upon casting or upon being attacked.
With Galeoth, I give him 2 Chrogmatic (or even 3..) items that greatly increase Mana regen and Mana. Secondary, I increase Spell Damage. I'm not focus on health or damage, because Galeoth is slow and weak in combat.. I use most Mana regen because of the Guard spell which I obtain in chapter 6.
With Fradz, I give him A LOTS OF damage, as high as posible, some health and a minor amount of mana. Some important things Fradz must have is: Siphon Life (for sure!), Francisca (restore after kill) and items that damage/restore upon attacking. Secondary, I increase his armor and critical damage. Spell and mana regen is not important for Fradz (he has speedy boost already)..

III. In combat
 * Phodom alone.
(Chaotic Rift - only when fighting boss) - Avatar - Impact Flare - hit hit hit hit - Flame Explosion - hit hit hit - Heal - Avatar - hit hit hit ...

 * Galeoth alone.
1. Glacial Armor - (Frozen Paradise - Ice Bolt - hit hit hit - only when fighting boss) - Ice Bolt - Freeze - hit hit hit - Frozen Fang - hit - Ice Bolt - RUN! (or stay to use Glacial Armor and Heal!)
If you have Mesme Ice Crystal:
2. Mesme Ice Crystal - Ice Bolt - hit hit hit - Frozen Fang - hit hit hit - CRYSTAL IS DESTROYED! - Frezze - RUN! - Use the 1st stragedy!

 * Fradz alone.
1. Invisible - CRIT - Sword Dance - slash slash slash - (CREEP DIE) - (IF NOT) - Invisible - CRIT - CREEP MUST DIE!!!
2. Speedy Boost - (Teleport Strike) - Sword Dance - slash slash slash - Invisible - wait cooldown - CRIT - invisible - wait cooldown - REPEAT UNTIL THE EPIC AND ELITE BOSS DIE!

* Phodom and Fradz
Fradz Invisible - Phodom come first and bash a foe - FOE GET ANGRY - PHODOM IS ANGRIER - HE EXPLORE! - Fradz come to CRIT - Phodom AVATAR and TANK - IMPACT FLARE - Fradz Sword Dance .......
If Phodom has Adeline Rush, use it together with Speedy boost and Sword dance on Fradz..

* ALL TEAM
... too much... I don't want to write...
Just use all disable spell with Phodom and Galeoth, leave crazy Fradz dealing incredible DPS....
- Tears -

Aeroblyctos

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Re: Ability Debate
« Reply #3 on: April 09, 2011, 04:58:06 pm »
Great tactics! Great tactics.

Yea it goes pretty insane when you have all the heroes.  ;D

How does Mesmerizing Ice Crystal bug?
Do you have any ability ideas in your mind that should be added?

Tears

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Re: Ability Debate
« Reply #4 on: April 09, 2011, 11:52:48 pm »
OK, since there are too many active spells, I think I should add some passive spells first. But the difficult thing is: HOW to make passive spells DIFFERENT from combat kings? And since there are many great combat kings, will people choose these spells? Yeah, there is one thing combat kings still not do: AURA, and looking back at your campaign, there's NO FRIENDLY aura abilities (yeah - aura of fire is CRUEL AURA). Each character should have their unique aura, which you still not use in any items.

So, my first though:
1. Phodom:
Aura of Leadership: greatly increase heath regen, a minor amount of damage and armor. (HEAL CATEGORY).
- Health regen: = 0.2% * level (at level 10 you heal 2% heath/seconds, it mean you only need maximum 50 secs to fully heal). Also give you chance to restore health when being attacked.
- Armor: 1 * level
- Damage: 10% and won't increase.
- Chance: 10% and won't increase.
- Restore amount: 5% * level

Note: if there are items that increase health regen by 1% or 2%, noone will ever use this spell. So reserve that attribute.

2. Fradz:
Aura of Enthusiasm: greatly increase movespeed and attackspeed, a minor amount of critical damage. Also give a chance to increase damage when killing a foe. (AoE CATEGORY).
- MS: 3% * level
- AS: 5% * level
- Crit dam: 20% and won't increase
- Chance: 10% + 5% * level
- Damage: 100 and won't increase

3. Galeoth:
Aura of Wise: greatly increase mana regen, a minor amount of experience and gold gain. Also give a chance to restore mana when casting a spell. (AoE CATEGORY)
- Mana regen: 0.1% * level (0.1% of max mana, just like Phodom)
- Experince: 10% and won't increase.
- Gold: 10% and won't increase.
- Chance: 10% +  3% * level
- Amount: 20% and won't increase.

I know it is nothing special and a little imba.. Balance it, I'm sure people will use it. Aura is something common BUT ... for all people anyway.. I will think of other abilities.
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Tears

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Re: Ability Debate
« Reply #5 on: April 09, 2011, 11:59:04 pm »
Oh, I forgot...
About the Mesmerizing Ice Crystal. I play in version 1.5b and there are those bugs:
- It doesn't cast TAUNT.
- Foes hit it a few times and run in strange direction...
- Sometimes they ignore the crystal and attack me.
- When the crystal is destroy, it does nothing.

About version 1.5c or d, I'm not sure, I still not download it..
- Tears -

Aeroblyctos

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Re: Ability Debate
« Reply #6 on: April 10, 2011, 04:40:03 am »
We can do passive abilities, but we can also do active/deactive and auto-cast abilities too!  [-)

For example I'm probably going to do an ability like "Immolation" from basic Warcraft 3. The name for the ability will be Whirlwind and Fradz just spins around doing damage to enemies nearby as long as he have mana or is killed. I don't know if I can actually develop this ability because you can actually do same time other abilities.. It might look stupid Fradz spinning around while doing Teleport Strike.

I was planning to add aura for Phodom, but it must be unique. There must be something special for auras. I was thinking to add an armor aura(gives +5 armor) and something else. But I don't what is that something else. About your auras, they are all just basic things. Like I said earlier, they must have something unique that separates them from item bonuses.

About the crystal, it's not fixed in 1.5d. I'll edit the ability by adding "real" taunt ability for it. Also I'll let the ability stay and player can use it every 10 second if needed.

This debate is doing great. Let's continue.
« Last Edit: April 10, 2011, 04:42:38 am by Aeroblyctos »

Tears

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Re: Ability Debate
« Reply #7 on: April 10, 2011, 08:31:41 am »
Yeah, as I say.. Aura is something common but useful and.. for many people. But if it must be unique, I think it's will take some times to come up with an idea.

I will think and try put one or more ideas a day, it may be a bad idea, but idea give ideas.. You will think of something from such bad ideas! About auto-cast, if there are some abilities like that, you should add them to exception for some items that restore upon casting. Right?

One joke:
Fradz's Ultimate:
Give you 1% * level to do 15x damage (ULTIMATE CATEGORY) :p. Do it, I will use it, I will happy sacrify my Teleport Strike...
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Aeroblyctos

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Re: Ability Debate
« Reply #8 on: April 10, 2011, 09:00:52 am »
I didn't quite understand what you asked. Please repeat.

Tears

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Re: Ability Debate
« Reply #9 on: April 12, 2011, 12:38:48 am »
I means auto-cast is spells that require a minor amount of mana and can cast very often. If there are abilities like that, heros with items that restore health and mana upon casting will be.. invulnerable.

OK, continues with the ideas:

Fradz:
Coin Sword (active - no mana - 60s cooldown): immediately turn a creep into gold. The gold amount is calculated by (Enemy Level * 2 + Spell Level * 10)

Chapter 2: ~70 gold/creep
Chapter 5: ~150 gold/creep
Chapter 10: ~360 gold/creep

Problems: respawn enemies, no good if you used give up once or more..



Galeoth
Ethereal Form (active - much mana - 20s cooldown): turn allies or enemies into ethereal form. The unit with ethereal form can't actack or be actacked, but they still can use spell and take damage from spell. When in ethereal form, enemies' movement speed is decrease by x% and spell damage deal to them increase by y%. If this skill is used on an ally, it give y% resistance to spell and increase movement by x%. This affect last 3 seconds.
x = 2% * spell level
y = 10% + 1% * spell level
Every 10 skill points increase duration by 1 second.

Level 1:  movement decrease/increase:  2%      spell damage amply/resistance: 11%
Level 5:  movement decrease/increase: 10%     spell damage amply/resistance: 15%
Level10: movement decrease/increase: 20%     spell damage amply/resistance: 20%
Level20: movement decrease/increase: 40%     spell damage amply/resistance: 30%



Phodom
Sacrify (active - no mana (or very small mana) - 20s cooldown): Phodom sacrify 33% of health to deal damage to an enemy. As he master this skill, he can deal potential damage to a foe without sacrify so much.
Damage = (100% + 10% * spell level) * Health sacrified amount.

Level  1:   Health    900             Sacrified Heath   300               Damage:     330
Level  5:   Health   2100            Sacrified Heath   700               Damage:   1050
Level10:   Health   6900            Sacrified Heath 2300               Damage:   4600
Level20:   Health 15000            Sacrified Heath 5000               Damage: 15000
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Tears

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Re: Ability Debate
« Reply #10 on: April 13, 2011, 04:54:11 am »
I update one of the abilities above and give some more ideas.

Update Fradz's Coin Sword
If you use on a boss, leave a track on it, the track last 30 seconds. The boss with this track will be reduced armor by 25%. If the boss die when the track still active, give 50% more gold gain from it.

Galeoth
Soul Colector (aura): whenever a spell is casted in a radius of 1000 around Galeoth, all enemies in the range of 1000 will lose their health and mana over time. This affect last x seconds. The affect can be stack up unlimited times but after x seconds the affect will reset. If any unit die under this affect, it will reset the affect of all nearby unit to x seconds.
Health and mana lose over times: 0.1%/second.
Duration: 4s + 0.2 * spell level

This aura is get better if:
- Spells is cast around Galeoth.
- There are lot of nearby weak summons.

More calculation:
The maximum duration is 8, min is 4.2, so I take the average time: 6.
Suppose that you cast 2 spells/seconds. The 1st sec give you 0.2%/sec, the 2nd sec increase the affect to 0.4%/sec, the 3rd sec give you 0.6%/sec, the 4th sec give you 0.8%/sec, the 5th give you 1%/sec. So in 6 seconds you can suck out: 0.2 + 0.4 + 0.6 + 0.8 + 1 + 1 = 4% enemies health and mana, still not count the spells casted by enemies. If there are lots of weak summons nearby, Galeoth can kill it easily with his spell and reset the duration, but the affect still at 1% (or more) per sec. So the next 6 seconds you will at least suck out: 1% * 6 = 6% health and mana of nearby enemies. Continues with that will help suck out even more health and mana of enemies.

I don't know if it's imba or not. In some situation where weak enemies conitnues to come out, this spell is get crazy, because the affect can be increase to 2%/sec or more...

This spell is good for someone who are fast. Not recommend to one who don't cast spell often.
« Last Edit: April 13, 2011, 05:37:29 am by Tears »
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Blackdoom59

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Re: Ability Debate
« Reply #11 on: July 20, 2011, 03:19:50 am »
Phodom
Instant abilities:

1Impact Flare-
2Meltdown-
3Retribution-Phodom trows his golden hammer at the enemy dealing massive dmg and leting the target dizzy for 10 seconds.(Dizzy state 35% chance to miss , Slow AS and MS(25% each)+10% dmg taken from spells
Effect increases with abil lvl , strenght CD=Aero choses
Calc-dmg=100+(Abillvlx75) + 10xstr
4 Hammer Charge-Phodom keeps his hammer prepared , then charges into an enemy dealing masive dmg and knockback of 500 range
Effect increases with Agility ,Strenght , level
Calc=dmg=175+(Abilvlx100)+6xagi+7xstr

Elemental Abilities:
1-Flame element
2-Aura of fire
3-fire mastery
4-Godly Defence - Phodom's  Trust in God gave him a magical armor beyond his one.Every time Phodom is attkacked He has some chances that the attack will be deflected upon the enemy.Also 35% chance that Phodom will reduce some dmg of the attack.
Chaches of deflect increases with lvl.Reduceed  dmg increased with level , inteligence , agility
Calc-Chances of deflect 5%/lvl of ability
Reduced dmg =30+(lvlx10)+ 0.5x inteligence+0.5x agility



AOE spells
1Flame Explosion
2Ground zero
3- Blinding Light-Phodom becames Sun itself for 3 seconds.Any unit who stand close to him will take masive dmg and these within 1000 radius will be blinded(60% miss chance)
Effect increases with level , inteligence
Calc damage /second-50+(abilvlx50) +intx2
4-Sacrificial Hammer- Phodom spits his blood into his hammer , loosing 30% of the current health.His hammer will become Encheancheted for 5 attacks.The folowing attacks will deal bonus dmg and 100% Splash dmg , and evry strike steals 5% of the enemy's attack(stacks 10 times last 10 seconds each).
Effect increases with level
Calc-Bonus dmg=20+(Abilitylvlx10)


Heal
1-Fire shield
2-Heaven's bless
3-Requiem for Light.Phodom rises his hammer , then burst of light are escaping his body.Evry burst is going randomly yet if it hits an ally it heals it , if it hits an enemy it damages it.
Effect increases with lvl , int
Number of bursts-5xabillvl
Heal /burst-350+5xint
Dmg / burst 50+5xint
4- Dragon's Tranqulity(soory it typed it wrong.Using the head of his first defeated dragon , the yellow dragon Verticus , It heals all the nearby alies(chaneling 30seconds)
Effect increases with level
Heal/second-50+(50x lvl)

Ultimates
Pheonix Combo
Chaotic rift
Fissure Slam-Phodom slams the ground with all his power , dealing masive dmg to all the enemies.Afterworlds , fissures come out that deal more dmg to the hited enemies(700 AOE)

Effect -Increases with lvl , Strenght

Calc

Dmg-400+100xstrenght
Fissure dmg-350 + 500x abilvll

Holy Refresh-Phodom refreshes 100% of the alies Health and mana.Not only that this spell cost a lot of mana , but also cost a major procent of Phodom's life.
Effect increases with lvl
Life loos-75% (of current HP) - Abillvlx10(%)

Aeroblyctos

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Re: Ability Debate
« Reply #12 on: August 05, 2011, 06:53:14 pm »
I don't like Coin Sword + Ethereal Form abilities. Both are hard to balance and they can be really imbalanced.

I love Phodom's "Sacrify" ability. New name: "Headbutt" and that will be added.

About "Soul Colector", I won't do any % damages based on enemy health. It would be too imba: the end bosses will have millions of hit points.

"Retribution" all slots are taken plus I quite don't like this one(needs a fine animation etc.).

"Godly Defence" is like basic damage back I already have few this type of abilities and items.

"Blinding Light" could have future. Please improve it.

"Blinding Light" + "Dragon's Tranqulity" I try do like Phodom would have only single target heal / buffs.

"Fissure Slam" is little like "Colossal Slam" I've been planning.


And here are some abilities I'll do probably for 1.6a, b or c. These are not yet polished so, ehh.

Spoiler (hover to show)
« Last Edit: August 05, 2011, 06:58:33 pm by Aeroblyctos »

Blackdoom59

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Re: Ability Debate
« Reply #13 on: August 13, 2011, 03:47:33 pm »

"Blinding Light" could have future. Please improve it.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------[/spoiler]
Well that was VERY unespected  lol:)).I mean of ALL the abilities I post i never thought you'd chose that one.Maybe if it's a little like...
Lvl1-1 seconds
Lvl5-4 seconds
Lvl10-7seconds
Lvl15-10 seconds
Lvl 20-10 seconsd and no channel(phodom can atk and move while the effect is active