Poll

How should we balance Gold in TCO?

It's fine, no balance needed. Keep it the way it is.
50% of the synthesis recipe cost should be added to the selling value.
Reduce the price of synthesis recipes.
Constant trickle of gold income: (i.e. 10gold/min).  [Not supported by Aero :P  ]
Creep/Monster kills should reward more gold.
Options 2 and 3.
I have a better idea and I posted it below.

Author Topic: Gold Balance  (Read 2950 times)

Skasian

  • Fradz
  • ***
  • Posts: 111
  • Location: Australia
    • View Profile
Gold Balance
« on: November 01, 2011, 01:31:03 am »
TCO is a campaign designed around a unique feature that no other game possesses. That is the 'Give Up' feature.

The currently problem is that to be able to afford the entire set of items you would need to play through the game entirely (1-7) at least 4 times on Normal difficulty to be able to experience all the items the game has to offer.

Arguably not everyone has the time nor wants to replay the same scenario that many times and thus it can be very disheartening for some players. Thus there has been discussion and we are currently looking at balancing the Gold system in the game.

Please place your vote and may the winning option be implemented :)

Pourquoi

  • Administrator
  • Zylcious
  • *****
  • Posts: 964
  • Location: Arkham, MA
    • View Profile
Re: Gold Balance
« Reply #1 on: November 01, 2011, 09:18:16 am »
I don't think constant gold income would be a good idea... Since in TCO there's no time restrain, you could go AFK and let gold pour into your bag infinitely, while checking every now and then to eat food.
Along the shore the cloud waves break,
The twin suns sink behind the lake,
The shadows lengthen
In Carcosa.

Strange is the night where black stars rise,
And strange moons circle through the skies,
But stranger still is
Lost Carcosa.

Songs that the Hyades shall sing,
Where flap the tatters of the King,
Must die unheard in
Dim Carcosa.

Song of my soul, my voice is dead,
Die thou, unsung, as tears unshed
Shall dry and die in
Lost Carcosa.
TCO Item List

Archangel Anzelayne

  • Xada
  • **
  • Posts: 70
  • Location: Mumbai, India
    • View Profile
Re: Gold Balance
« Reply #2 on: November 01, 2011, 10:20:03 am »
The best way is more Gold accumulation across the levels. All creeps should give gold and the gold should be proportional to the level of the creep. That way we can earn very little in the beginning chapters but earn massive amounts of gold in the later chapters where there are creeps at level 40 and above.
Welcome to my nightmare!

Aeroblyctos

  • Administrator
  • Xyrzious
  • *****
  • Posts: 3361
  • Location: Helsinki, Finland
    • View Profile
Re: Gold Balance
« Reply #3 on: November 01, 2011, 01:19:15 pm »
Before we go even further I'll not make "constant gold income". It's unrealistic and it doesn't work with RPGs. I like the way that player is unable to "farm" gold in a single chapter. If you want to "farm" use that "give up".

Skasian

  • Fradz
  • ***
  • Posts: 111
  • Location: Australia
    • View Profile
Re: Gold Balance
« Reply #4 on: November 02, 2011, 12:16:37 am »
One second thoughts I realised the flaw in the constant trickle of gold. There is a reason why I suggested it, let me explain:

--------------
The trickle of X commodity is a business model employed by games (mostly MMORPGs) with a focus on consumer hooking. It is a very effective method of holding on and potentially grabbing new customers. The idea is if you want the players to AFK farm that particular commodity. One musn't underestimate the power of subliminal marketing. You see say if you were to leave the game on during the day and you go about your daily business, there would always be the thought of your game in the back of your head generating you income. There is a huge advantage to having your customers constantly think about your game in any way possible, subliminally you are getting them addicted. Additionally when they come back to their computer, the first thing they see on their screen is the game still open. Guess what they will do the as the first task they get home, play your game! Compare this to without an AFK-farm idea, you'd come home, maybe take a shower or grab some food and open your computer to see a screen full of games that you can potentially choose from.
--------------

There is a bit more to it then that, but that is the summary of the idea behind the constant trickle, even though it may not work in the SP-RPG I hope you all learnt something about business (game) strategies  ;)  .

Back to GOLD BALANCING

  • The first issue I'd like to raise is the price of selling synthesised items versus individual items. The problem here is you make a LOSS by combining items. Take a look at Diamond Ring for example:
    • Diamond Ring  (Costs 6000 for recipe - sells for 4500)
    • Amulet of Magic (Sells for 750)
    • Amulet of Life (Sells fro 750)
    • Amulet of Great Life (Sells for 1250)
    • Amulet of Great Magic (Sells for 1250)
    • Now if we were to sell each individual component and NOT combine it, our profit would be. (750+750+1250+1250+6000 = 10000). If we combined it to use in the game then sold it later we only get (4500), that is less than HALF! What am I inferring here? "You are punishing players heavily for combining items". What is one FUN ASPECT of RPGs...  --> Making awesome items. See the problem? It doesn't make sense.
  • The second problem is how many play throughs are required to be able to experience all the items. I have calculated roughly that to be able to complete all the items in the game a player would need to start Chp. 1 with 150,000 Gold (and then they would still need to grab every item and farm every creep on every chapter) to have enough to spend.

    Now how many play-throughs is that? Playing through on Normal + Hard difficulties, it has taken me 5 (probably more for others) 'give-ups' to reach this and I'm a pretty OCD RPG player in terms of getting all the items and killing everything each time.

    I'm not saying this is necessarily a bad thing, but rather if you guys are happy with the game aiming for this mark then ok. But not all players are willing to replay the game that many times and the fear here is that you will be putting of new-comers or players who are not willing to spend countless hours.

I believe the key here is fixing the synthesis costs and fixing creeps to give more gold as the levels progress.

"Ah come on, just when it was going all nice and steady, I have to start over."

DD Canada sums it up with a very valid point. That is exactly how I felt the first time I played this campaign and was almost about to quit because of it, but didn't cause I love games too much. Others will definitely be feel this way and leave.
« Last Edit: November 02, 2011, 12:19:34 am by Skasian »

Aeroblyctos

  • Administrator
  • Xyrzious
  • *****
  • Posts: 3361
  • Location: Helsinki, Finland
    • View Profile
Re: Gold Balance
« Reply #5 on: November 02, 2011, 10:50:58 am »
Yes, it certainly doesn't fit well with the theme, but then again, going for the "give up" over and over is like watching a movie again and again; depending on a person, and the movie, it might actually be better, or it can be horrible.

Isn't killing the same monsters same but even more simple?

So, at the moment you're forced to do give ups (excluding with Child's Play), but why wouldn't it be, that the campaign is completeable with every difficulty on the first attempt already?

When playing on Child's Play, Easy and Normal difficulties you should be able to complete the campaign without using Give Up.

Blackdoom59

  • Global Moderator
  • Arzodius
  • *****
  • Posts: 817
  • Posts: 9999999999
  • Location: .....:::::Romania:::::.....
    • View Profile
Re: Gold Balance
« Reply #6 on: November 02, 2011, 12:33:07 pm »
Hey i kind'a hav an ideea.Why don't we introduce jobs in the game :>?
Like for each ch...For ex , in ch1 Richard give you two quests , after/if you finish all of them there should be:
-Player enters Richards's yard ,there , the bodyguard says
  xHey , Phodom , I can pay you if you take care of the yard
  xMaybe , depends
  xI will pay you with x gold per crop , however every 5th crop will duble the first prize.Also every crop seed costs x:2
  xWhat do I have to do to the crop seeds?
  xYou have to place them somewhere , then take the item watter and use it to them.
  xThen?
  xWait @ 1 minute and the crop seed will turn into a crop , bring it to me and win your prize.While you wait , you can go to other crops
  xI will consider it.

And goes on , in ch 2 the barbarians might need some help
In ch3 the ghost might ask Galeoth to do something
In ch4 , the three dragon slayers , or the marcheant
In ch5 , the farmers
In ch6 the rezidents
In ch7 the guards


So what do you think?
« Last Edit: November 02, 2011, 01:01:08 pm by Blackdoom59 »

Blackdoom59

  • Global Moderator
  • Arzodius
  • *****
  • Posts: 817
  • Posts: 9999999999
  • Location: .....:::::Romania:::::.....
    • View Profile
Re: Gold Balance
« Reply #7 on: November 02, 2011, 12:35:18 pm »
OR , we can use the ''trade'' technique.Ch1 exemple:
You take some items from the shops in the town , you sell them 2 sir Richard / Orcs/Nathalie and you can buy something from them and sell it in the town.

Blackdoom59

  • Global Moderator
  • Arzodius
  • *****
  • Posts: 817
  • Posts: 9999999999
  • Location: .....:::::Romania:::::.....
    • View Profile
Re: Gold Balance
« Reply #8 on: November 02, 2011, 01:07:18 pm »
Hello,

Geez, when I suggested the jobs to be added in replace, you hop in and highlight that it was you who said it first. :D

Am I supposed 2 read every f*cking reply X(?

Skasian

  • Fradz
  • ***
  • Posts: 111
  • Location: Australia
    • View Profile
Re: Gold Balance
« Reply #9 on: November 02, 2011, 07:37:13 pm »
When playing on Child's Play, Easy and Normal difficulties you should be able to complete the campaign without using Give Up.

Child's Play yes, Easy yes... Normal maybe not.

Well there you have it Aero... pick your favourite idea and show us what you can do in 1.7 :)
« Last Edit: November 02, 2011, 07:39:22 pm by Skasian »

Archangel Anzelayne

  • Xada
  • **
  • Posts: 70
  • Location: Mumbai, India
    • View Profile
Re: Gold Balance
« Reply #10 on: November 03, 2011, 01:14:28 am »
Such jobs would not only be tedious but also mindbogglingly boring. I suggest the gold income should be proportional to the difficulty level such that in harder difficulties you earn greator amounts of gold for the same tasks. I still think the best way would be to get gold by killing creeps...the higher the level of the creep the more the gold. That would keep the motivation for killing every creep in the level and should make the game much more fun to play with. And i beleive you could change the fixed price of some objects. Say create a trading object like grain sack or jewellery or whatever. Some shops should sell at more value and some shops at less so you can incur profit or loss selling different items at different places. You could make a new skill called trader that would help the player get profit.
Welcome to my nightmare!

WsawW

  • Damanthe
  • ***
  • Posts: 136
    • View Profile
Re: Gold Balance
« Reply #11 on: November 03, 2011, 03:06:52 am »
I hav an idea.. I prefer the guild golds.. jz like Final fantasy 7

Cause Phodom,Fradz and Galeoth are all dragon slayers.. therefore dragon slayers is a guild.. so they earn extra money and exp.. when they complete another dragons slayers quest (althought i havent finish playing the whole game [sorry T.T]) .. (too busy with school projects..tmrw last day of it YES !!!)

Example :
Chapter 4 (The Thing)
the quest was activated by getting an intro with the 3 dragon slayers. so upon finishing their quest. u gain extra money and exp.


Oh yeah. make optinal farming quest like kill all the enemies (type of enemies) to gain extra gold or exp

Thats my opinion .. i would like to see is it good enough or not ^^

Skasian

  • Fradz
  • ***
  • Posts: 111
  • Location: Australia
    • View Profile
Re: Gold Balance
« Reply #12 on: November 03, 2011, 07:57:25 am »
Either way we have:

9 Votes so far for CHANGE
 2 Votes for NO CHANGE


Which I think is the entire active population of these forums sadly :P

WsawW

  • Damanthe
  • ***
  • Posts: 136
    • View Profile
Re: Gold Balance
« Reply #13 on: November 03, 2011, 08:24:50 am »
Well.. we are not just fans.. we are dedicated fans X ;)
Anyway .. I usually don't like to give opinions  :)
But I think is a need of change.. i will vote ^^

Blackdoom59

  • Global Moderator
  • Arzodius
  • *****
  • Posts: 817
  • Posts: 9999999999
  • Location: .....:::::Romania:::::.....
    • View Profile
Re: Gold Balance
« Reply #14 on: November 03, 2011, 11:05:24 am »
Such jobs would not only be tedious but also mindbogglingly boring. I suggest the gold income should be proportional to the difficulty level such that in harder difficulties you earn greator amounts of gold for the same tasks. I still think the best way would be to get gold by killing creeps...the higher the level of the creep the more the gold. That would keep the motivation for killing every creep in the level and should make the game much more fun to play with. And i beleive you could change the fixed price of some objects. Say create a trading object like grain sack or jewellery or whatever. Some shops should sell at more value and some shops at less so you can incur profit or loss selling different items at different places. You could make a new skill called trader that would help the player get profit.

Dude , the ideea of income is STUPID!I don't even know why Skasian would pick that(yeah , I'm with Aero so wut?).Think about it , you play in easy dificulty , you get to ch7 , you remain afk 3 hours , you return and you hav dozenz of gold.It's completely unbalanced.

Hello,

Archangel, which of the improvements do you actually find the best by gold gained per effectiviness ratio?

Oh and one thing (prepare for the worst):

PARAGRAPHS; PAARAAGRAAAPHS!
It's very uninspiring to read a long wall of text when there's no empty lines here and there. :P

At least someone hwo dared to say that.