Author Topic: This game is too hard...  (Read 2801 times)

fruitstore

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Re: This game is too hard...
« Reply #15 on: March 23, 2011, 10:27:30 am »
I think it's really not easy for a new player of this campaign to go through the first or second round. Without much money, you can't get good items or even enough potion. And spell is quite important, i practise many times to find my best choice of spells for three players. But with enough practice, i suppose most of bosses are not very hard. The dragon in chapter 6 needs more practice, and then you can find how to deal with it. I think the dragon in Chapter 6 at v3.3a one or two years ago is the most interesting boss to play with. Do not decrease it's difficulty too much, that's not fun.
« Last Edit: March 30, 2011, 03:23:18 pm by fruitstore »

Aeroblyctos

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Re: This game is too hard...
« Reply #16 on: March 25, 2011, 02:16:40 am »
Spells is the second thing important after items, remove or reduce the damage done by spell in easy mode. Hitpoints is not the main thing, example 200 000 Death Bringer won't be anything compare to 50 000 Vampire Lore or Narshi.

Does Death Bringers have that much hit points? Shouldn't have.

For example, Talloon and Epic Boss on Chapter 5 can't be killed without Synthesis Items/Items Set
I didn't tried to fight against Elite Boss and Epic Boss on Chapter 6 but I can tell you Xada and the dragon can't be killed without Synthesis Items  ;)
Others Elite boss/Epics boss are OK

Okay, chapter 6 boss is too strong. Why is it that strong?

Oh c'mon, Tallon just need some nerf on his dmg, i could kill him without synthesis(of course a stuned him ALOT, and died ALOT too... guess it can't be helped :-\ )

So should I make it stronger or weaker?

I think it's really not easy for a new player of this campaign to go through the first or second round. Without much money, you can't get
good items or even enough potion. And spell is quite important, i practise many times to find my best choice of spells for three players.
But with enough practice, i suppose most of bosses are not very hard. The dragon in chapter 6 needs more practice, and then you can
find how to deal with it. I think the dragon in Chapter 6 at v3.3a one or two years ago is the most interesting boss to play with.
Do not decrease it's difficulty too much, that's not fun.

I see, we have a problem.

Now our job is to make the campaign easier for lesser difficulties, but leave the higher difficulties alone / make them even more challenging.


This is what I have now:

  • Chapter 6 Boss' Hit points and Mana will be reduced from 100k to 50k.
  • Xada's attack damage is reduced and the shadow golems will be removed.
  • Reduce Death Bringer hit points.

Anything else? What about bosses in other chapters? Is chapter 5 boss hard?
« Last Edit: March 25, 2011, 02:18:48 am by Aeroblyctos »

Pourquoi

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Re: This game is too hard...
« Reply #17 on: March 25, 2011, 03:36:08 am »
Quote
Does Death Bringers have that much hit points? Shouldn't have.
Nope, they only have 30k health.
Along the shore the cloud waves break,
The twin suns sink behind the lake,
The shadows lengthen
In Carcosa.

Strange is the night where black stars rise,
And strange moons circle through the skies,
But stranger still is
Lost Carcosa.

Songs that the Hyades shall sing,
Where flap the tatters of the King,
Must die unheard in
Dim Carcosa.

Song of my soul, my voice is dead,
Die thou, unsung, as tears unshed
Shall dry and die in
Lost Carcosa.
TCO Item List

Black^

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Re: This game is too hard...
« Reply #18 on: March 25, 2011, 04:24:54 am »
as i said before Tallon is by far the weakest boss of ALL of them, the rest is perfectly fine. With those nerfs i fear that they will be way too easy:/

Richie

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Re: This game is too hard...
« Reply #19 on: March 25, 2011, 04:54:50 am »
That was Spell's Talloon who are too strong, so I have slowed this game to try killing him. He always killed me. I couldn't killed him because I haven't Synthesis Items  :D
When I bought somes Synthesis Items, it's ok !

Tears

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Re: This game is too hard...
« Reply #20 on: March 25, 2011, 12:25:40 pm »
@Aero & Chimto: I don't mean 200k is the hitpoints of Death Bringer, what I mean here is: "Even if Death Bringer have 200k hitpoints, he's nothing compare to Vampire Lord with just 50k hitpoints."

Death Bringer have good damage but slow attack, and his spell can be easily avoided just by staying away from him. On the other side, Vampire Lord is weak at damage but he's fast and have many good spells, strong summons so defeat him is more difficult.

I will give more examples to demonstrate why I think spell is WHAT make the campaigm difficult, I use normal difficult.
Chapter 1:
Mini Bosses:
-Spider Queen: her poison hurt like hell, without blessing and divine seal, you'll easily die if you are not becareful.
-The monster in the field of sir richard (don't remember its name): he drains life so fast, and stuns.

and 3 others can be killed easily since they prefer brute strength in stead of spells.

Chapter 2:
-Vodro: his blade storm can be avoided easily but his fan knives is unexpectable, and worse, the damage is so great for Fradz's health. (I wonder how to kill him early without Invisibility).
-Scorpion King: need not to say.. he's even more imba than the Elite or Epic boss itself. And not because of his attack damage or attack speed, but because of its poison.
-Centaur: you can kill him easily but if you fail to avoid his earthquake, then 90% you die.
-Taurren Chief: a bug... I think... 2 Healing Wards and Super Fast cooldown make him impossible to kill.
-Fishthern King: his aura so great, you won't have a chance on face-2-face battle.
-Kobold King: reju spell, death coil, aura and some time true sight, this boss is not hard as the other but he will take you more time to empty his mana first.

the others is easily since their spell is weak or easily avoid.

Chapter 3:
-Enemies hitpoints is high, if Galeoth's starting pack doesn't have Magic Amulet then you have a difficult start, each enemy in this chapter is likely in the middle of a mere creep and a mini boss.
-Troll King: long stun time combine with high DPS, I have to use hit and run static since there is no place for you to level up in this chapter (it's crazy to go Epic Boss, farm to level 30 and then return to this mini boss, but... this is the only place to farm level...).

Chapter 4:
-2 tree-like mini bosses, they regen super fast, have stun, rain waves, and the forest imbolize you randomly, if you dun have enough hitpoints, mana and items that restore health/mana after casting then it's hard to kill these 2 bosses.
-Meiliepuliev (>"< or hell whatever I can't remember): he have spell that make you silence, and take much damage over time, stun, high hitpoints and attack damage.
-Fourth Brother: this time DFS is deadly instead of spell.
-Spider Queen: mana burn, poison.

Chapter 5:
-Turle: the long range and high damage water waves can kill both Fradz and Phodom EVEN if they are well equipped.
-Wolf: nothing so hard but his swarm (all direction) spell, but this can be avoided easily.
-Zombie Jack: he swarm like crazy, and kill like a michine... he use spell damage, so ALL items your heros have is suck...

the others are Doom Lord, Bear Father and Element EarthKing, they prefer to brute strength, and their spell can be seen through easily, so not so difficult.

Chapter 6:
-Narshi: this is the boss that kill me THE MOST. Her impale spell deal huge damage (40% Fradz's hitpoints), if you don't destroy all the slaughter houses, then the more hitpoints Narshi lost the faster impale spell is casted..
-Vampire Lord: fast regen, invisible, good summons, (hex, avatar: I'm not sure if Normal difficult also have this), this is the second hard mini boss in this chapter.
... I can't remember others..

But I think those are enough. In my examples, bosses that prefer to brute strength, weak spell are easily to defeat. But bosses with good spell make us suffer alot.. Reduce spell damage in easy mode will make the campaign more easy. That's my conclusion.
« Last Edit: March 25, 2011, 12:31:19 pm by Tears »
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Bebeto

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Re: This game is too hard...
« Reply #21 on: March 25, 2011, 08:20:31 pm »
I didn't had all that problems on the first 4 chapters(of course with "give up" opiton), but when it comes to 5 chapter, the table turns...
The turtle is too fatal to take on when she changes sides(waves are tooooooo strong and even an invisible Fradz have exposure to it).
As i said earlier, tallons wind spells are fatal too.
the zombie can be a big problem with those danm satyrs( dont remenber its name) around.
i didn't played chapter 6 yet(coudn't reach it).

Tears

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Re: This game is too hard...
« Reply #22 on: March 25, 2011, 10:34:20 pm »
You're pro and get accustomed with the campaign, imagine that it's a newbie or first-time-play this campaign.

In the post above I'm not mentioned any Main Bosses, because... except chapter 6 main boss, all others doesn't take me more than 20s to kill (with full items), so I dun no if it's hard or not...
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Black^

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Re: This game is too hard...
« Reply #23 on: March 26, 2011, 02:31:36 am »
EVERY BOSS can be beaten if you just know the spells, you just need to be very careful and you need very good reflexes. And all those who say tallon is imba....WHAT? i killed him with lvl 22 fradz and phodom on **** difficulty not even 1 tornado hit me.

Aeroblyctos

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Re: This game is too hard...
« Reply #24 on: March 26, 2011, 08:47:47 pm »
Quote
Does Death Bringers have that much hit points? Shouldn't have.
Nope, they only have 30k health.

Aha.  :o

as i said before Tallon is by far the weakest boss of ALL of them, the rest is perfectly fine. With those nerfs i fear that they will be way too easy:/

No they cannot work perfectly if someone is complaining about them. We have to remember there are many different skilled players. What I heard from you, you are experienced dota player meaning you are fast and knows the mechanics of warcraft 3. This campaign should also be for the ones who first time ever plays Warcraft 3. This is what I'm aiming... "Hard to master, easy to learn"

That was Spell's Talloon who are too strong, so I have slowed this game to try killing him. He always killed me. I couldn't killed him because I haven't Synthesis Items  :D
When I bought somes Synthesis Items, it's ok !

Well it's Elite Boss so Synthesis items are required.

EVERY BOSS can be beaten if you just know the spells, you just need to be very careful and you need very good reflexes. And all those who say tallon is imba....WHAT? i killed him with lvl 22 fradz and phodom on **** difficulty not even 1 tornado hit me.

Because of a bug, in reality you were playing Child's Play. So **** in chapter 5 means actually Child's Play.  ;D

To Tears: You have explained well the bosses. Good job. Now I want your opinion: what bosses should be made stronger / weaker or other way updated?

Tears

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Re: This game is too hard...
« Reply #25 on: March 27, 2011, 09:44:31 am »
OK, all the bosses I mentioned in the post above are OK, it's a challenge for normal players and SHOULDN'T BE EDITED except for people who think the campaign is so hard (in easy mode). Ah, I forgot.. remade Wildboar Chief in chapter 2 (the boss who place 2 Healing wards very offen...), he's a BUG.

All other bosses who prefer to brute strength and have weak spells are easy to defeat, so they are OK in Easy Mode. In normal mode or above, you can make them stronger in 2 ways: first, focus on DPS, add to them some kombat king (like stun, feedback, crit, armor reduce, miss, counter attack...), they should be crazy DPS dealer in this way; second, fasten their casting time, example: the Orge King in chapter 1, Meiepuliev (>"<) , some disable skills (hex, stun, imbolize, freeze..), make summons stronger and fast regen.

One more thing: becareful with summons, since there are many items that restore after kill, you must made sure that summons are hard to kill (or your summons will like a heath-and-mana-source).

List bosses should be made stronger in normal mode:
Chapter 1:
-Orge King: cast time faster, regen faster, higher armor.
-Bandit King: nothing special, just like a creep, turn him into a deadly rogue (chaos damage, armor reduce, avatar...)
-Wuzzes Magician (not remember his name, he appears near Phodom house): his Illusions are way too weak, he don't use Illusions at the beginning, he use when he nearly dead >"<, make his illusions take 100% damage and deal 50% damage, and add a smoke skill (like Steath assassin in dota).
-Ancient (in the place you dig for kombat king): give him more hitpoint and taunt faster, summons more and faster (he tank, and his creep kill).
-Main Boss: health and mana regen reduce aura, damage Phodom every time he cast a spell.

Chapter 2:
I pass this chapter almost by Invisibility, so I can't imagine how to improve bosses in this chapter... maybe fast regen or counter attack or... TRUE SIGHT! But anyway, it just take more time.. not more live..

Chapter 3:
-Elite Boss: I don't know why but... he's hexed very offen (maybe because of my kombat king, I play from give up), so I kill him without losing a potion in **** mode, he in the Alpha version is stronger!
-Main Boss: make her summons harder to kill, and her DPS should be a little highter.

Chapter 4:
-Elite Boss: Snake Ward should have more hitpoint.
-Main Boss: more feedback damage, and maybe disable skills.

Chapter 5:
-Element Earth: more AS, more summons, and let him fight together with his summons.
-Main Boss: Illusions, Resurrection, Crit and Evasion.

Chapter 6:
-Death Bringer: more spell range, DO NOT let players get outside or this boss's spell mean.. nothing, summons RANGERS instead of meleer and place them far away from Phodom or Fradz.
-Mister Skeletal: INCREASE HIS LEVEL TO AT LEAST 51, WHY? the main idea about this quest is 2 bosses together in a small place, if one boss can easily killed just by one spell (FRADZ'S DARK RITUAL) then... this quest is nothing special.
-Sorry but this chapter has so many bosses, I can't remember all >"<, I will update later..
- Tears -

Aeroblyctos

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Re: This game is too hard...
« Reply #26 on: March 30, 2011, 04:51:40 am »
Okay, thanks.

I'll improve these bosses.